LandRaider firing hatch?

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**DeathReaper**

Kommissar Kel wrote:
Also those "Hatches" on top of the Land raider are not Hatches at all, they are copulas, same goes for the rhino, razorback, Chimera, Manticore, Leman russ, etc.

Well to be fair a Cupola is a type of hatch.

**DeathReaper**

Idolator wrote:

I don't think that there are any references in the rules as to what a cupola is.
I used the actual deffinition.

A cupola is indeed a domed structure. You can look it up if you want.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cupola

Or yo can look at images of a cupola.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=5&gs_ri=psy-ab&cp=6&gs_id=j&xhr=t&q=cupola&rlz=1R2ADFA_enUS485&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.43287494,d.b2I&biw=1280&bih=633&wrapid=tljp1362855190422010&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=GIU7UfmPE8fW2QX6uYGwBQ

Since we are talking about hatches you can look at images of a Cupola hatch.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Cupola+hatch&hl=en&rlz=1C1DVCB_enUS383US392&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=TZ87UZPhJMOFrQGGqICgBA&ved=0CFsQsAQ&biw=1280&bih=653

Mannahnin wrote:
I do think you've got a fair point that people shouldn't be too harsh or authoritative when talking to people who refer to the front rounded opening/s on the Rhino as a hatch/hatches. The more useful point to make is that the Rhino rules refer to a singular "hatch", not "hatches", and there's one big hatch over the passenger compartment, which is the obvious candidate.

However It could just as well mean the hatch in the front.

**DeathReaper**

insaniak wrote:
DeathReaper wrote:
Mannahnin wrote:
I do think you've got a fair point that people shouldn't be too harsh or authoritative when talking to people who refer to the front rounded opening/s on the Rhino as a hatch/hatches. The more useful point to make is that the Rhino rules refer to a singular "hatch", not "hatches", and there's one big hatch over the passenger compartment, which is the obvious candidate.

However It could just as well mean the hatch in the front.

No, it really couldn't.

Why not? the rules say top hatch. There are 2 hatches on top of all of my rhino's.

**DeathReaper**

Idolator wrote:
DeathReaper wrote:
However It could just as well mean the hatch in the front.
Yes, that is a bunch of pictures of hatches attached to the firing cupolas/turrets of tanks. The "doors" are the hatches, the turret is the cupola.

Right, thus the Cupola Hatch, which is what we were talking about.

Mannahnin wrote:
Because there is only one hatch over the passenger area.

Because the front opening comes with bits to squeeze one model coming out of it, and there's clearly no room for two.

Because the one in the back is clearly big enough for two guys.

All of this is fluff and not rules.

Because the front can be modeled with 1, 2, or zero hatches depending on how you choose to assemble your model, whereas the back always has the big hatch.

This depends on the model and how it is assembled. Of course this will have an impact on the game play, as the rules are very model dependent.

If there is a hatch in the front, why is that not a 'Top Hatch'

Clearly it is a hatch, clearly it is on the top of the vehicle.

**DeathReaper**

insaniak wrote:

Because even if there isn't any current clarification, the wording has been more or less the same for about a gazillion years now, and GW have clarified in the past which hatch they mean.

Because having it be the firing point for one vehicle while every other vehicle that carries the exact same hatch doesn't have a fire point makes no sense.

And because assuming that the single-man hatch above the crew section is the fire point for two guys in the passenger compartment is ridiculous.

But you know all of that, you're just determined to make a point about RAW despite knowing full well that this is one instance where the RAW is not going to be applied to the game, ever.

On the rare times I use my rhinos I measure from the front hatch.

Clearly that is not where many people measure from though.

Not that it really matters either since the Rhino is AV 11 on front an sides either of the top hatches can be the same distance from the target enemy unit with the right positioning.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Idolator wrote:
The use of two words n the search provides pictures of cupolas with hatches on them. If you did a search for "house doors" you would get a bunch of pictures of houses with doors. The door is not the house.

Plus there is this:

cu·po·la A gun turret; a small domed hatch above a gun turret on some tanks

https://www.google.com/search?q=cupola+definition&rlz=1C1DVCB_enUS383US392&aq=f&oq=cupola+definition&aqs=chrome.0.57.3050&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

**DeathReaper**

Idolator wrote:
Since there are three opening on the top of the vehicle and the reference is to "top hatch" and not "Top Hatches" there is obviously only one hatch. The other two openings would be the scuttles.

Except the front hatch is a hatch and not a scuttle, as the vehicle is not a ship.

Scuttle is usually a nautical term, but it can apply to buildings as well. (But not vehicles).

scut·tle

1. A small opening or hatch with a movable lid in the deck or hull of a ship or in the roof, wall, or floor of a building.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/scuttle

So those hatches on the front are not scuttles.

**DeathReaper**

Mannahnin wrote:
The Rhino has at least four openings; three access points for embarkation/disembarkation on the sides and rear, and one large hatch over the passenger compartment which is the firing point.

It may be modeled with up to two more openings at the front, which are there for looks and/or to serve as weapon/wargear mounts.

It may be modeled with up to two more openings at the front, which are there for looks and/or to serve as weapon/wargear mounts, or the firing point as RAW dictates top hatch, and that is what the openings on the front are.

**DeathReaper**

Mannahnin wrote:
Of course, the current SM codex isn't quite as explicit, so it's theoretically possible to encounter a human being who tries to argue the point. I've never encountered it at the table, but all things can be found on the internet.

I play like that, and my group has no issues, though If I were to play it out of the large hatch instead of the small hatch, nothing but the angle of the vehicle will change, and that is really a non-issue as far as I am concerned, since Rhino's are AV 11 on front and sides.

I can place the large hatch as close as I can place the small hatch and not have any affect on what AV the enemy is shooting at.

I will probably play by the large hatch from now on because

1) It really makes no difference.

2) Most people here seem to play that way, so maybe this is the norm at tournaments.