Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I played a 750 point game with the new Daemon Codex last night against CSM. I had:

Herald of Slaanesh + Mount + Whitstealer Sword + Locus of Beguilement
6 Fiends of Slaanesh
14 Plaguebeaeers
16 Daemonettes
Soul Grinder + Daemon of Nurgle + Phlegm

The CSM list had (from memory):

Chaos Lord + Mark of Nurgle + Power Fist + Burning Brand + 2 Gifts (rolled extras so ended up with +1T for a 6T total, Eternal Warrior & some sort of icy aura power that he forgot to use)
5 Havocs + 3 Autocannons
5 Plague Marines + 1 Plasma
5 CSM
5 CSM
10 Cultists
10 Cultists
Hellbrute + Multi-melta, Flamer & Power Scourge

We were playing the Scouring on a 4x4 board. I went first & deployed everything. The Soul Grinder ended up nearly on top of the 4 point objective and my Plaguebearers were holding the 2 point objective plus. There was another 3 point object in my deployment zone, but I had nothing on it. The Daemonettes & Fiends (with Herald) were positioned to charge up either flank. My Warlord trait was -1 Leadership for Fear tests against Daemons. His was infiltrate for 2 of his units, so he infiltrated his Lord with one unit of Cultists on the left opposite my Soul Grinder and the other unit of Cultists opposite the Fiends.

On my first turn, shooting from the Soul Grinder killed a couple of marines. Warp Storm did nothing very exciting (failed to roll a 6 for any of his units). I moved my Daemonettes up to prepare for a turn 2 charge on the Lord & Cultists. My Fiends & Herald were actually able to charge & kill the other unit of Cultists (infiltrating had put them in turn one charge range), so first blood to me.

On his first turn, shooting killed about half my Daemonettes.

On my second turn shooting killed two Havocs (one with an auto-cannon). I got a 4 on my Warp Storm roll so all my models had -1 Invulnerable Saves, not good. I charged both my Fiends & Daemonettes into the Lord & Cultists. I decided to challenge the Lord with my Herald (the Locus let me choose who accepted). Still not sure if this was a good idea. He had a Power Fist, so even the though the Fiends dropped everything down to I0 (models with I0 can't attack), the Power Fists goes at I1 and since set-to-specific-value modifiers happen after additive modifiers, the Lord was still able to attack at I1 as normal. The Herald did one wound and the Whitstealer ability another one, leaving him with just 1 wound left. S8 return attacks then killed my T6 non-Eternal Warrior Herald. If I'd challenged the Cultist sergeant, my Herald would have killed him, and the odds were good that the Fiends would have been able to kill everything else including his Lord. This would have left both units in rapid fire range of ~12 bolters and a plasma-gun, plus 2 auto-canons and the Hellbrute flamer & multi-meta. And I would have had to face all that with just a 6+ invulnerable save. So perhaps the sacrifice of my Herald was worth it.

On his second turn, shooting killed a couple of Plaguebearers that weren't able to get in cover. Then he charged the Daemonettes with 5 Plague Marines, 3 Chaos Marines (the survivors from my turn 1 shooting) and the Hellbrute. I killed his Lord, 3 Plague Marines, a single Chaos Marine and took off a Hull Point from the Hellbrute, but lost several Daemonettes and a Fiend in return. I ended up loosing combat by 4 and loosing three more Daemonettes and another Fiend to Daemonic Instability.

On my third turn, shooting did nothing but I managed to get a unit of 11 Daemonettes by rolling 12 on the Warp Storm table. The Daemonettes landed close to the 4 point objective, but close enough to capture it this turn. In the ongoing combat, the surviving Daemonettes and Fiends took another Hull Point off the Hellbrute and killed the rest of the Marines, but lost models in return, so combat was tied.

On his third turn, I lost 2-3 more Plaguebearers and a couple of the newly arrived Daemonettes, but managed to finally finish off his Hellbrute. By the end of that combat I had one Daemonette left plus 2 fiends, each on 1 wound.

On my fourth turn, I moved the Soul Grinder forward out of cover (just two two auto-cannons left that could only glance the front armour on 6) and moved the Warp Storm created Daemonettes on to the four point objective. Warp Storm did nothing (rolled a 7) as did shooting from the Soul Grinder. The Single Daemonette moved to charge the 3 surviving Havocs and the Fiends moved to charge the 5 surviving Chaos Marines.

At this point I had Daemonettes on the 4 point objective, Plaguebearers on a 2 point objective, first blood, slay the warlord and line breaker. He had 5 Chaos Marines on a 2 point objective, slay the warlord and possibly line breaker if he strung the Chaos Marines out. But he was probably about to loose those Marines to the Fiends, so my opponent decided to call the game.

Thoughts On the New Codex

The Soul Grinder didn't do much, cover saves, BS3 and bad rolling only meant ~4 dead Marines in four turns of shooting. The Daemonettes and Fiends did really well. Between them taking out his Lord, Hellbrute, 20 Cultists, 5 Plague Marines and 3 Chaos Marines. The Herald had to be sacrificed to survive shooting after the bad Warp Storm result, so didn't do much (just 2 wounds off the Lord).

I Never really got to use the Fiends properly - no psykers so no need to worry about the stackability or not of their anti-psyker powers. Also, if the Lord hadn't had an unwieldy weapon, their -5 initiative ability to deny return attacks on the charge would have been a really useful way of keeping my Herald alive. As it was they killed all 20 Cultists at I5 before we had to worry what happened at I0.

The Warp Storm table had the biggest impact, making me sacrifice my Herald on turn two, but then giving me 11 free Daemonettes on turn three. Without them, I think I would have still won, but it would have been a lot closer. 99 extra points in a 750 game is huge. So two really game changing results in four rolls.

Similar to the previous codex - I think Grinders need to be used very aggressively. With AV 13 they are largely immune to anything without the Melta rule.

Since yours was Nurgle, I would expect a 3+ save on hits in most cases anyway (5+ cover and Shrouded) which means it should be moving into combats like the one with the Lord and Cultists to tarpit the whole unit and smash it down slowly.

It is easy to worry about that single Helbrute, but at the end of the a grinder played cautiously always underperforms (as you noted).

I might consider running it with the Vomit profile - and deep striking it too. You can easily avoid Meltas that way, get a first shot with the flamer and then charge in the next turn.

 calypso2ts wrote:
Similar to the previous codex - I think Grinders need to be used very aggressively. With AV 13 they are largely immune to anything without the Melta rule.

Since yours was Nurgle, I would expect a 3+ save on hits in most cases anyway (5+ cover and Shrouded) which means it should be moving into combats like the one with the Lord and Cultists to tarpit the whole unit and smash it down slowly.

It is easy to worry about that single Helbrute, but at the end of the a grinder played cautiously always underperforms (as you noted).

I might consider running it with the Vomit profile - and deep striking it too. You can easily avoid Meltas that way, get a first shot with the flamer and then charge in the next turn.

Never really used my Soul Grinder much with the previous codex. And when I did it was as a Plague Hulk in an Epidemus list backed up with Blight Drones (this was in 5th Edition - with three flying battle cannons, it was way too nasty for 6th).

If the torrent weapon was AP3 like the Helldrake, it would be a no-brainer, but with AP4, I'm not so sure. I was quite concerned about the multi-melta, but I certainly could have moved the Grinder out of cover at the start of turn three, rather than waiting until turn four. It was a small table, so I was able to hit all his units that weren't locked in combat without me moving (although they were getting cover saves). Not sure how it would have done against the Hellbrute, but it would have been fun to try. The Hellbrute has a better initiative and WS, but the Power Scourge upgrade only has S8 and 2 attacks. Also just realised that you can't combine the Scourge with a Heavy Flamer, it can only be used to upgrade a Power Fist. Not that it made any difference. He wasn't in range until the turn he charged my Daemonettes & Fiends and at that point I was already engaged with his Lord.

Next time I'll try be more aggressive with it, but it might be a while because I want to try out some of my other models first.

Not convinced about Deep Striking at this points level. 180 out of 750 is just too many points that might not come in until turn four. At higher point levels, it would be OK, particularly since then I can fit an Aegis with Comms Relay in.

I don't think you can assault on the first player turn (ie, the player going 2nd can assault, but not the player going 1st). Also, how did the herald keep up with the fiends, was he on a steed?

I've not got to use a soul grinder yet, but I agree with the comment above, you have to be aggressive. Heck, you have to be aggressive with almost the entire army. In the game I played, I took maxed sized units, and benefitted greatly from it. Also, always make the herald a psyker if you have the points. The benefits are too good, especially if you can roll Acquiesence (no counter attack, no overwatch).

So far, i've only deepstruck flamers to great effect. Depending on the army I'm facing and the level of terrain will possibly make me do more deepstriking.

If I had the choice on a Slaanesh Psyker I would rather take the rolls on Telepathy.

Flamers are not the absurd units they were before - but a S4 AP 4 template on a jump pack - with 6 or 7 in the unit - is really good.