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I searched, didn't find it, blah blah. So now I'm posting:

This is a 2 part questing relating to units with split fire and Vehicles with ordnance weapons.

First, split fire: If I have a unit that can split fire, must I declare which models in the unit are firing at which target PRIOR to rolling? or am I able to roll them one at a time (smart rolling) and then split the fire?
Example: I have a unit of Long Fangs (who would have guessed lol) with 3 missile launchers and 2 plasma cannons. The squad leader has his standard equipment (bolt pistol), and is not firing allowing the unit to benefit from his fire command. I have two juicy targets I want to take out: I have a DA dreadnought standing directly in front of me with its' back to me, and a unit of Necron Warriors including Cryptek and Lord who have just used the Crypteks' staff to teleport into my backfield. I want to kill the dreadnought with a single missile launcher shot since it only has 10 armor in the rear, and maximize my blast templates on the bunched up Necrons. Am I allowed to roll one missile launcher at a time until the dread is dead and then fire all remaining fangs at the Necrons? or am I required to state "These 2 missile launchers are firing at the dread and the rest of the squad is firing at the Necrons."?
My interpretation of the shooting sequence is that I am required to declare a target, check range, check BS, determine number of shots, roll to hit. Fast rolling makes it much easier when all the shots are the same and the unit is not splitting its' fire. Cool. But in the case of splitting fire, the ONLY thing I'm seeing that I'm REQUIRED to do is declare the two different targets I'm firing at. I have the option to roll one firing model at a time to determine whether or not I've hit and penetrated the dreadnought. Once I've gotten the pen, I can declare that the remaining fangs are firing at the other target, roll on the pen table, and continue on my way. (I understand I cannot roll on the pen table before deciding to shoot another missile at it because if the target had any form of save it would be able to take the save before the roll on the pen table meaning I had inadvertently finalized my shooting at that target.) OR am I required to roll all 'to hit' on the dread before I can roll any penetration rolls? Even if this is the case, I can roll one 'to hit' at a time until I decide otherwise, and the remaining fangs can fire at my second target.

Secondly, Vehicles and ordnance: this is one is much simpler. If I have a vehicle with both an ordnance weapon and another non-blast/template weapon, am I required to fire the other weapons at snap fire if I haven't yet fired the Ordnance weapon?
For example: I have a Vindicator with two storm bolters and I want to shoot at a unit of Marines (say 4). If I so desire, I would choose to fire the 4 storm bolter shots at the unit with my full BS, then fire the Demolisher cannon. RAW do not clarify that I must fire other weapons as snap fire if I also intend to fire the ordnance weapon; but only that if I have fired an ordnance weapon, other weapons on the vehicle must make snap shots. If in the above example, I fire my 4 storm bolter shots and kill all four marines, I no longer need to fire the demolisher cannon and therefore won't.
The intention of this is kill the marines without risking a large blast template drift onto my own troops. however if my storm bolter shots do not kill the marines I will risk the demolisher shot (gotta clear them off the objective, get the VP, w/e).

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond!

-Skrog

You declare targets then roll.

Yes, if you are GOING to fire the ordnance weapon then you must snap fire the rest. It does not matter the order you fire them in.

1. Yes you must declare the targets and who is firing at what before hand. So yes, "these two missiles at unit a using frags and these three at unit b using kraks" is how it is done. You must also roll all of your to hit rolls at once for a target. You cannot fire kraks at a dread till you bust it and then move onto shooting the remaining missiles as frags at the necrons.

Since you fire all weapons in a unit at once there is no haven't fired yet for one of the weapons on a vehicle. Declaring your shooting at a valid target is firing.
You either fire the ordnance and snap fire the rest or don't fire the ordnance and fire the rest as normal.

 liturgies of blood wrote:
1. Yes you must declare the targets and who is firing at what before hand. So yes, "these two missiles at unit a using frags and these three at unit b using kraks" is how it is done. You must also roll all of your to hit rolls at once for a target. You cannot fire kraks at a dread till you bust it and then move onto shooting the remaining missiles as frags at the necrons.

Thank you for the concise response, however, could you please cite the rule which forces me to declare which models are firing at which of the two targets? I'm only seeing a requirement to declare the two targets.
"I'm firing at the dreadnought and the Necrons." period. I do see though that I must roll all 'to hit' rolls before I can roll any 'to wound/penetrate" rolls however this is why I reference "Smart rolling" Vs "fast rolling". I can choose to roll one die at a time if I so desire.

In reference to the ordnance question: If I'm reading correctly, this means I must fire all weapons that intend to fire PRIOR to rolling any 'to wound' rolls? This would therefore negate my "if this then that" nature of the question.

-Skrog

Skrog wrote:

 liturgies of blood wrote:
1. Yes you must declare the targets and who is firing at what before hand. So yes, "these two missiles at unit a using frags and these three at unit b using kraks" is how it is done. You must also roll all of your to hit rolls at once for a target. You cannot fire kraks at a dread till you bust it and then move onto shooting the remaining missiles as frags at the necrons.

Thank you for the concise response, however, could you please cite the rule which forces me to declare which models are firing at which of the two targets? I'm only seeing a requirement to declare the two targets.
"I'm firing at the dreadnought and the Necrons." period. I do see though that I must roll all 'to hit' rolls before I can roll any 'to wound/penetrate" rolls.

In reference to the ordnance question: If I'm reading correctly, this means I must fire all weapons that intend to fire PRIOR to rolling any 'to wound' rolls? This would therefore negate my "if this then that" nature of the question.

-Skrog

It's all in the shooting sequence on page 16. You can not roll to wound before all your to-hits are done.

Page 71 - SHOOTING WITH VEHICLES
When a vehicle fires, it uses its own Ballistic Skill characteristic
and shoots like any other unit. All its weapons must fire at a
single target unit.

The "shoots like any other unit" bit is the important part here.

Skrog wrote:
It's all in the shooting sequence on page 16. You can not roll to wound before all your to-hits are done.

Yes, I understand that I must roll all 'to hit' before I can roll 'to wound'. But If I want to roll one die at a time to see if I hit as a method to determining how many dice I want to throw at the target, I'm not seeing any restrictions to that.

-Skrog

All shots are simultaneous, not sequential. You're giving an order to fire here or fire there. Not going around your guys duck-duck-goose style.

Page 13 - as all of the models in the unit fire at
the same time regardless of whether. or not all of the dice
are rolled together.

When you declare a target you declare what models are firing as you don't have to shoot with all the models.
"Which models can fire" pg 13
Since you have to declare which models are not firing at a unit you must declare which models are not firing at unit a and which ones are not firing at unit b. The easier way is to just say who is shooting at a and who is shooting at b.

The order of operations in shooting on page 12 doesn't allow you to do anything until you have resolved fully the previous step for that unit.

Ok, I think that clarifies it for me. I'll double check my BRB when I get home from work.

Thanks!

-Skrog

While the above posters are correct about firing sequence the Split Fire USR overrides the basic shooting order. In the description of Split Fire you select one model to split fire and resolve their shot(s) before resolving the shots from the unit. The unit may target the same unit as the Split Fire-r or may target a separate unit. For your example you would declare your Missile Launcher is firing at the DA Dread, resolve that shot then select the target for the rest of your unit. For another example your krak opens up a Chimera, the rest of the squad can shoot the now open IG squad that was inside

EDIT: Sorry missed that you're talking Space Wolves and they have Fire Control not Split Fire, carry on gents

I'm not sure why you demanded quotes from the core rules for why you have to declare up front.

Fire Control covers that itself anyway:

"declare which models will fire at each target and then carry on using the normal rules."

Also note, you really should avoid using the term split fire to refer to using Fire Control since Split Fire is a different rule that functions in a very different way.

Thanks again. I was mulling all of this over today at work and as such didn't have my codex. Upon checking my codex I do see that it states I must declare before firing so I do appreciate the responses.

Thanks guys,
-Skrog