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So I have about 2000 points of Space Wolves that I have assembled and mostly painted. I love my Wolves but I recently picked up Dark Vengeance + some Chaos Termies, also have the new CSM codex. I don't know much about CSM tactics or army builds but I tend to lean towards heavy shooting lists. I'm wondering what kind of tactics CSM excel at and where their biggest strengths are. I'd like to mix it up with long range firepower and some CC units, maybe include Abaddon in the mix. Anyone able to offer some insight/feedback to this?

You can go either way with a good in your face army using zerkers bikes and heldrakes and some cultists as fodder or you can make a good gunline army with oblits cultmarines not including zerkers and cheap predators and vindicators are very good with the large blast.

Hope this helps

Space Wolf H.Q's abd standard troop choices are better than anything found in the CSM codex, however the Elites are better in the CSM codex, all the vehicles are pretty much the same. The heavy support i would give to the Long Fangs specifically, but the CSM's in general as for fast attack, well Thunderwolves or nothing in terms of Space Wolves, more maybe better options for CSM's, they can both build good defence lines however i would stick with Space Wolves for now.

I agree SW have better point effective troops, as well as good HQs, the elites on CSM aren't rally good for the slot, only the cult marines are good there and they aren't that much better point/performance when compared to grey hunters. Heavy troops are similar to the SW, you got your avg marine vehicles, your watered down devastators and all the daemon engines which aren't that good, since the oblies lost fearless they aren't that good either. Fast attack is the only section where CSM beat SW but since you are going more to the dakka side then probably I wouldn't stick to CSM.

If you want a dragon, take CSM.

If you want to play without one competitively, don't.

CSM is a better book than Wolves.


- HQ choices are flat out better. Practically all of the HQs have a use (but not all are "competitive" some may say, the combination of the player and the list dictates what is competitive, NOT just the list) and can have strategies built around them. They're also really cheap considering the amount of power they have.

- In order to get Wolf Lords as ridiculous as Chaos Lords (Any Lord with a Black Mace/Axe of Blind Fury), Wolf Lords turn out to be much more expensive than Chaos Lords.

- The Grey Hunter is no longer as good as he looks. Grey Hunters cannot take double special weapons without sacrificing LD9 for counter attack. Following this need for a Wolf Guard, they don't get a character base. Basic CSM do, and he's ubergrit. CSM can also have three special weapons in one unit (two normal special weapons and a combi weapon on the Champion), Grey Hunters can have only two, as previously mentioned.

- There is army wide Hatred (Loyalists), which are a substantial chunk of the population. This really puts you over the edge against these armies.

- Those that claim CSM can be swept need to realize how often it does not happen. I have been practically playing the new CSM book exclusively since it came out. Playing about four to five games a week, and being in three FLGS tourneys (which are three rounds each) the amount of times I've had my CSM be swept, I can count on one hand.

- Oblits with MoN are better than Long Fangs. In fact, the age of the Long Fang is practically dead Yes, they're more expensive, however they've got a lot of perks for their cost:

They draw and can take a substantial amount of firepower compared to Long Fangs.
They always have a tool against your opponent.
They don't need to stick to cover.
They are mobile.

- Champion of Chaos is not a weakness to the army. Proper placement of the Champion can have him not engaged and he would not be able to issue a challenge. See the link in my signature for specific details. In fact, Champion of Chaos can help against monster HQs that the squad can't handle. It's a method of buying time.

Now, to answer the OP: Chaos is an army that wants to beat the enemy's face in, after shooting him. Shooting cannot be ignored in the book, as Chaos does not have the tools to win every single full strength combat. It's very important to keep in mind that Chaos wants to be close to the enemy. They absolutely excel below the 24" range.