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So i'm just about to start Warmachine with a couple of friends, I orderd the two player starter box and the templates so we can try the game, One of my friends wants to start Khador and me and another friend dont know what we want to start. Anyways, I love all the factions, Exept Scyrah (Dont like their Warjacks) but I'm leaning towards Cygnar and Menoth, Could someone maybe give some info on the two factions? Pro's and con's and such to help me chose?

Well, first and most obvious, the two-player box has Menites in it, so you'll have a head start on trying them out and collecting their range.

The Protectorate of Menoth is a heavily synergistic faction. They have a lot of support units and 'casters that buff up other units. From my understanding, they can run quite 'jack-heavy because of this. My experience is that they have a lot of tough-as-nails front line units that are meant to protect the utterly squishy supporters in the back. Menites also have tons of focus to throw around; one of their 'casters has the highest Focus stat in the game, and their Wracks generate more focus for them. Menites also like fire. A lot. Some of my more fun games have been against Menites.

Cygnar is my faction. Where Menoth is zeal and united purpose, Cygnar is technology and cageyness. We're known for ranged firepower, from 'casters to 'jacks to basic infantry, but Cygnaran melee shouldn't be discounted. Our units tend to be highly skilled, but somewhat fragile--very little in the way of multi-wound models. Cygnar likes electricity, with entire armies built around electro-leap (hitting one model with an electric attack, which then causes a bolt of lightning to hit another nearby model). Cygnar is probably one of the more maneuverable armies in Warmachines, with a lot of fast 'jacks and fast infantry. Though not blatant in terms of stacking bonus upon bonus like Menites, getting the whole army working together in combined arms is vital to making Cygnar work. We also have access to more mercenaries than anyone else, which is handy for getting a variety of things on the board, shoring up weak spots, or serving as a basis for launching a mercenary secondary army.

You've probably figured out the aesthetics of everything already--raging Catholic crusaders vs. minutement/trench infantry/mad scientists. I'd tinker with the Menites from the starter box, and maybe proxy them as Cygnar units (if you can get the stat cards--I honestly have yet to regret buying the all-cards package deal in the War Room app) to see which you like better. They're both solid choices, though.

My primary is menoth

First as menoth, you have to realize you are slow, really slow, kador-slow. You aren't super tough like them either, and aren't as strong unbuffed.

Sounds terrible? Its not, its just when you start you will experience the above and be disheartened, more than likely.

You have fantastic, fantastic support, a choir that makes your warjacks impossible to hit with magic, or with nonmagical guns, or do extra damage, you have vassels that can allow your warjacks to walk away after taking a single swing rather than get pulverized, and you have some of the hardest hitting infantry in the game.

(most) menoth lists, and its gameplay, works as follows:
1. punish your opponent at range, Menoth has some great guns, but pays for them, so you can't really run a gunline, but taking them down a peg or two on the way in, helps. Many of our best jacks (vanquisher, Reckoner, ect.) have a good close combat weapon /and/ an above average gun.

2. Minimize the alpha strike, You will usually not be charging first, because your jacks are generally slow or at best equal speed to your enemies, there are many ways of helping absorb the initial blows (vassels like above, bastions (heavy infantry) can be super-tough, as well as more clever things like cloud effects and

3. Hit them back, harder. With your support still in service, menoth is pretty much the hardest hitting faction on the table, nearly every infantry model in the army has weapon master (extra dice, so 4 dice if they charge) and with buffs, things can get out of control.
Example a: Blood of Martyrs: 16 strength base, gets +2 if someone within 5" dies the previous turn, +2 strength from choir, +2 strength from ignite (if you have it) maybe -2 armor on the enemy with gorman if you run him. it can HURT. Most menoth jacks can wreck anything in the game with buffs, but the real strength here isn't the power, its the MAT, many armies rely on high defense to tarpit you down, menoth regularly runs the highest mat on any jacks in the game as far as I know of.

Choose Menoth and buy the 2 player starter box with the Khador player

It gives you about $200 of models and a rulebook (another $20~) for about $70

Already got the two player starter box, Me and my friend who havent chosen army got it together to try the game and it just arrived today ^_^ Much happy! Going to go to my friend soon so we can unbox it ^_^

Merellin wrote:
Already got the two player starter box, Me and my friend who havent chosen army got it together to try the game and it just arrived today ^_^ Much happy! Going to go to my friend soon so we can unbox it ^_^

what i'd suggest here, is when you guys find your army, buy the deck of cards for the army and use some stand ins/bases (vases are also super useful for marking stuff later like clouds, stand-in models when their weapons interfere, ect.

the game is fun at a battlebox level, but really starts to shine when you have two 35-50 point armies punching it out, while trying to shove eachother off objectives, and also having that constant metagame of a threat of assassination of your caster in the mix.
Also note that slams, two handed throws, ect. aren't used much in the battlebox, and neither is holding onto focus to pump up your casters armor, but these things are used quite a bit when turning your army into a drill to reach that caster, and holding onto focus rather than dumping it all into jacks is what keeps you alive.

You can go through these lists and check out all the stat cards. You know, just incase you want to buy more, because you will most definitely.

Khador-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_khador.pdf

Cryx-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_cryx.pdf

Mercs-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_mercenaries.pdf

Cygnar-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_cygnar.pdf

Protectorate-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_protectorate.pdf

 Sharps wrote:
You can go through these lists and check out all the stat cards. You know, just incase you want to buy more, because you will most definitely.

Khador-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_khador.pdf

Cryx-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_cryx.pdf

Mercs-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_mercenaries.pdf

Cygnar-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_cygnar.pdf

Protectorate-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_protectorate.pdf

Just fyi. These are outdated. note "Field Test" these were from when PP was doing a beta of sorts in the transition between MkI & MkII. I suppose they'll give you the general idea, but are by no means representative of the current stat set.

Chongara wrote:

 Sharps wrote:
You can go through these lists and check out all the stat cards. You know, just incase you want to buy more, because you will most definitely.

Khador-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_khador.pdf

Cryx-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_cryx.pdf

Mercs-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_mercenaries.pdf

Cygnar-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_cygnar.pdf

Protectorate-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_protectorate.pdf

Just fyi. These are outdated. note "Field Test" these were from when PP was doing a beta of sorts in the transition between MkI & MkII. I suppose they'll give you the general idea, but are by no means representative of the current stat set.

I'm a failure.

 Sharps wrote:

Chongara wrote:

 Sharps wrote:
You can go through these lists and check out all the stat cards. You know, just incase you want to buy more, because you will most definitely.

Khador-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_khador.pdf

Cryx-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_cryx.pdf

Mercs-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_mercenaries.pdf

Cygnar-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_cygnar.pdf

Protectorate-

http://www.tyrelfredericks.com/stuff/field_test_stat_cards_protectorate.pdf

Just fyi. These are outdated. note "Field Test" these were from when PP was doing a beta of sorts in the transition between MkI & MkII. I suppose they'll give you the general idea, but are by no means representative of the current stat set.

I'm a failure.

An easy enough mistake to make. They're at minimum a good way to get the general idea of things, the ability scores and general abilities are.. mostly the same. They changed up the templating on some abilities and tweaked a few models. It'll certainly give you a very good idea about what factions do, and what the roles of specific models are. Just don't be too surprised when it turns out Vilmon doesn't have rapid strike anymore, for example.

I'v been told that Cygnar can have alot of mercenary units and need alot of mercenary units, But where can you find such info? Does it say in the faction books what mercenaries they can use and stuff?

Cygnar can use the Highborn Covenant of the Mercs. You'll find a list of their models on Battlecollege.

EDIT: Also, Cygnar can and do work fine on their own, but the Mercs are useful for covering some of the things that we don't have, eg using Boomhowlers to get some medium based infantry. They aren't a must take, but they can certainly make a great addition to your forces!

Actually, a little clarification is needed. Each mercenary/minion has a list on it's card as to which faction(s) it will work for. Battle College does have a listing of which mercenary/minion works for which faction.
Here is the link: http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/mkiiMercTab

Just a note: Orin Midwinter is listed as being able to work for Highborn but can not by rule. This is an example of where Battle college makes a mistake. You should be aware that this is not uncommon (nor common) and check the individual entry in the book or on the model's card.

Alright, Thanks alot for the information!

I'm very excited to get started with Warmachine, And if we like it we will get the Hordes two player starter box too so we can try that type of armies aswell ^_^

Oh yeah! If I get the book for the army, Does it contain points cost for the units so I can more easily plan out what to buy? Oh, and also, Where do you find information on epic casters? I dont realy know anything about epic casters exept I heard they have points limits they cant be taken under, Is this true? What makes them special and where do I find information about them?

Merellin wrote:
Alright, Thanks alot for the information!

I'm very excited to get started with Warmachine, And if we like it we will get the Hordes two player starter box too so we can try that type of armies aswell ^_^

Oh yeah! If I get the book for the army, Does it contain points cost for the units so I can more easily plan out what to buy? Oh, and also, Where do you find information on epic casters? I dont realy know anything about epic casters exept I heard they have points limits they cant be taken under, Is this true? What makes them special and where do I find information about them?

Epic warcasters are just newer versions of an older warcaster. For example, the first version of the Menoth warcaster Kreoss is commonly referred to as pKreoss, whereas the second version is referred to as eKreoss (the third version of Kreoss is either called iKreoss or Kreoss3, depending on who you talk to). Ruleswise, there are no restrictions on Epic warcasters other than that in larger games with multiple warcasters you can not include more than one version of the same warcaster (ie, you could include either Kreoss1 or Kreoss2, but not both).

Alright, so you can just pick a epic caster at any points level, Even at 15 points and such, and they are just diferent versions of the same caster with no restrictions or anything? Alright, Thanks alot! I was realy confused about the whole Epic caster and stuff. ^_^

Myrmidons aren't weird......

There used to be different rules for epic casters in Mk I, but not anymore, hence hte confusion.

The Forces of... books are mostly good for fluff, and for (as you said) planning things out--they contain all of the rules information for each model/unit, though in a different format from the cards. Every model comes with its own card giving you all of its rules, but the Forces of... book is a good way to get the rules all laid out in front of you in an easily-referenced manner (as is War Room, but that's a little more fiddly). It can also provide rules clarifications (which was handy when I thought all of the Black 13th could use their special AoE attack, but the book pointed out that it was just one member).

I'd generally say that if you like a faction enough to start buying its models in massive quantity, the faction book is probably worth it for fluff. They're fun little books.

Deflare wrote:
There used to be different rules for epic casters in Mk I, but not anymore, hence hte confusion.

The Forces of... books are mostly good for fluff, and for (as you said) planning things out--they contain all of the rules information for each model/unit, though in a different format from the cards. Every model comes with its own card giving you all of its rules, but the Forces of... book is a good way to get the rules all laid out in front of you in an easily-referenced manner (as is War Room, but that's a little more fiddly). It can also provide rules clarifications (which was handy when I thought all of the Black 13th could use their special AoE attack, but the book pointed out that it was just one member).

I'd generally say that if you like a faction enough to start buying its models in massive quantity, the faction book is probably worth it for fluff. They're fun little books.

"Forces of" obviously only contain the models/ units for when it was released. The last one was released nearly 3 years ago.... The War Room app is fanastic if you are running it on a good device. IE. My iPad (3rd gen) runs it extremely well, My two year old samsung phone does not. Wrath and Colassals books help fill the gap between the "Forces of" and what is available

Dont have a iphone, Or a android, I have a old nokia, Normal cellphone, Old school, It has a bad camera and text message and thats about it.. XD So I cant realy use the War Room app, No device that can run apps. I'l probably end up getting both Cygnar and Menoth.. And Circle of Orboros.. I like having variation.. Thats why I have 5 Warhammer armies.. XD