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This question is currently a topic of interest with the people I play with. Can you use powers while in close combat? I've been looking over the rule book and can't find a statement for or against this.

Maybe, what kind of power is it?

The answer entirely depends on what the power's type is, or if it doesn't have one what the specific restrictions in its own rules say.

Witchfires and other Psychic Shooting Attacks: No.

Everything else: Fair game unless stated otherwise.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Maybe, what kind of power is it?

The answer entirely depends on what the power's type is, or if it doesn't have one what the specific restrictions in its own rules say.

Just powers in general. I know its broad but the only power I know for certain that can be used is the Force weapon due to the force special rule. I guess what I'm asking is what types of powers can be used if any at all.

Generally, all powers can be used in combat except those that explicitly forbid being used.

The psychic power types can be found in the BRB and those apply to powers with those definitions.

It'll depend entirely on the type of psychic power you're using. The FAQ's for each army point out which powers are considered to be from which school of discipline (for codex specific powers) so you know if the power you're using is a Blessing, a Mallediction etc... You then simply follow the rules for the type of psychic power you're using.

The question that's really open for debate by the rules lawyers is a little more specific - Are psychic powers which are cast at the beginning of your movement phase allowed to be cast while the unit is in CC, considering the unit has not and cannot actually move?

The point behind not being able to shoot or cast a psychic shooting attack while in close combat is that the unit does not get a shooting phase in order to perform such a skill. At the same time, a unit in CC does not get a movement phase, so since the Blessing or Malediction must be cast at the start of your movement phase, it would actually not be beyond the realms of possibility that someone may argue that the unit doesn't get a movement phase and therefore doesn't get the opportunity to cast psychic powers that rely on being cast at the beginning of the movement phase.

This would of course be a typical case of rules lawyering and not the way I've ever seen anyone play it. I certainly continue to cast my psychic powers in CC before I move any units that aren't in CC. This raises a further issue for said rules lawyers though... What if ALL of my units are in CC and I technically don't even get a movement phase? Bloody rules lawyers.

Keep casting in CC, bro!

Enceladus wrote:
Are psychic powers which are cast at the beginning of your movement phase allowed to be cast while the unit is in CC, considering the unit has not and cannot actually move?

The fact that they can't move is irrelevant. They aren't cast instead or in addition to moving - they're cast before you move any models.

The point behind not being able to shoot or cast a psychic shooting attack while in close combat is that the unit does not get a shooting phase in order to perform such a skill.

And PSAs or witchfires are done instead of normal shooting, not just at the beginning of the shooting phase. It seems like you're saying each unit gets phases to do stuff - that's incorrect.
The player gets phases and elects units to do stuff.

At the same time, a unit in CC does not get a movement phase,

Citation required. The unit cannot move during the movement phase, but that doesn't stop the player from having one.

so since the Blessing or Malediction must be cast at the start of your movement phase, it would actually not be beyond the realms of possibility that someone may argue that the unit doesn't get a movement phase and therefore doesn't get the opportunity to cast psychic powers that rely on being cast at the beginning of the movement phase.

It would be a failed argument from the start because that person is misunderstanding how phases work.

This would of course be a typical case of rules lawyering and not the way I've ever seen anyone play it. I certainly continue to cast my psychic powers in CC before I move any units that aren't in CC. This raises a further issue for said rules lawyers though... What if ALL of my units are in CC and I technically don't even get a movement phase? Bloody rules lawyers.

You always get a movement phase. Even if you have no models that can move, you get a movement phase.

Perhaps "Bloody rules lawyers" wouldn't frustrate you as much if you learned the actual rules instead of forcing your own interpretations on them?

You don't "lose phases" while in CC, you just can't do the standard action during those phases. While in close combat, you can't move during the movement phase, and you can't shoot during the shooting phase.

However while in CC, you can still do other actions during those phases if allowed, such as casting blessings and maledictions during the movement phase. You can't cast witchfire powers during the shooting phase because they are still considered shooting attacks.

Pages 23 and 28. Here's what units locked in combat can't do:

1) make any moves besides Pile-Ins.
2) shoot.
3) take Morale or Pinning tests caused by shooting.
4) go to ground.

*Everything* else is fair game. So the only psychic powers that can't be used are witchfire or psychic shooting attacks, as they must be performed instead of making a normal shooting attack that the model can't currently make.

 Super Ready wrote:
Pages 23 and 28. Here's what units locked in combat can't do:

1) make any moves besides Pile-Ins.
2) shoot.
3) take Morale or Pinning tests.
4) go to ground.

*Everything* else is fair game. So the only psychic powers that can't be used are witchfire or psychic shooting attacks, as they must be performed instead of making a normal shooting attack that the model can't currently make.

If you cannot take Morale checks, what happens if my unit deals more wounds than they suffer in CC?

 Happyjew wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
Pages 23 and 28. Here's what units locked in combat can't do:

1) make any moves besides Pile-Ins.
2) shoot.
3) take Morale or Pinning tests.
4) go to ground.

*Everything* else is fair game. So the only psychic powers that can't be used are witchfire or psychic shooting attacks, as they must be performed instead of making a normal shooting attack that the model can't currently make.

If you cannot take Morale checks, what happens if my unit deals more wounds than they suffer in CC?

They don't take morale tests for casualities, they do take them for losing combat.

Which is not what he said. He said they do not take Morale tests.

Sorry, I should have been more specific - it's Morale tests and Pinning tests *caused by shooting*. Updated the original post.

I know.

Andfor some reason the name of the test you take for losing combat escapes me. Its not a morale test IIRC. Break Test? Or is that just Fantasy.

 Grey Templar wrote:
I know.

Andfor some reason the name of the test you take for losing combat escapes me. Its not a morale test IIRC. Break Test? Or is that just Fantasy.

It's called a Morale Check (pg 26).

ok, I'm not braining 100% today.

 Grey Templar wrote:
Generally, all powers can be used in combat except those that explicitly forbid being used.

The psychic power types can be found in the BRB and those apply to powers with those definitions.

And this just seems to be such a turn around from everything else their rules follow. Normally you need permission to do something in this game, correct? Why would it then be the opposite for psychic powers? As such, I see no permissions to use them in CC as a general clause, though they did point out you can use them when gone-to-ground or falling back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Super Ready wrote:
Pages 23 and 28. Here's what units locked in combat can't do:

1) make any moves besides Pile-Ins.
2) shoot.
3) take Morale or Pinning tests caused by shooting.
4) go to ground.

*Everything* else is fair game. So the only psychic powers that can't be used are witchfire or psychic shooting attacks, as they must be performed instead of making a normal shooting attack that the model can't currently make.

I don't think saying "everything" else is fair game is correct, I hardly consider psychic powers to be a basic rule, which is what those pages are referencing. Or rather, you're referencing a section that is discussed far prior to anything advanced and applying it generously, which is not necessarily the correct way.

Anything you could do regarding psychic powers would and should be listed in the pskers section, there's no reason to mention psykers in the general assault section. Just as they did not mention vehicles in that section.

 Kevin949 wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Generally, all powers can be used in combat except those that explicitly forbid being used.

The psychic power types can be found in the BRB and those apply to powers with those definitions.

And this just seems to be such a turn around from everything else their rules follow.

It is not a turn around from everything else their rules follow.

Normally you need permission to do something in this game, correct?

Of course, and you have permission to cast Psychic powers.

Why would it then be the opposite for psychic powers?

It is not the opposite for psychic powers, as you have permission to cast them.

s such, I see no permissions to use them in CC as a general clause, though they did point out you can use them when gone-to-ground or falling back.

You are allowed to cast Psychic powers in the phase specified in the power itself, as a general rule.

Therefore you have blanket permission to cast a Psychic power, and nothing that says you can not cast whilst locked in CC (Unless it is a witchfire or other specific exception).

Ok, so maybe in saying everything else, I'm generalising. The permission is granted in the power itself, though. Either in the Codex text telling you when to cast, or the psyker rules that tell you when blessings, maledictions etc. are cast.

I agree that psychic powers can be cast in cc, The only exceptions would be maledictions because they are shooting attacks.

Do you mean witchfire? Maledictions aren't shooting attacks, they're cast in the Movement phase.

Yeah, sorry got them confused. I usually only use the eldar powers, so mind war can't be cast but fortune could be.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
I know.

Andfor some reason the name of the test you take for losing combat escapes me. Its not a morale test IIRC. Break Test? Or is that just Fantasy.

It's called a Morale Check (pg 26).

Never ceases to amaze me why in the world they stopped calling it a "rout test"...

Back to the psychic, even if one could agree that the norm does not cover psychic powers (and vehicles), still it's true that - on page 69 you can clearly start reading when you can use them.
The misinterpretation may come from the fact that the rules say "...at the start of the Psyker's Movement phase.", but, I'm pretty sure it means "the Psyker's player".

So, just to recap (and to see if I got them right ):

- Blessings: start of Movement phase
- Conjurations: start of Movement phase
- Maledictions: start of Movement phase
- Witchfire: during the Shooting phase instead of firing a weapon
- Without a type: check within the power's entry

Making an educated guess, any ranged attack is barred in CC, more or less anything else may be used, unless stated otherwise.