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Okay, so FMCs can get cover as per LOS rules.

Most MCs are Fearless, so can't go to ground.

Daemons MCs have Daemonic Instability, not Fearless.

So that means you can have Kairos fly up into some ruins (Swooping), so Hard to Hit (6's) and then go to ground for a 2+ Cover with Reroll of 1's.

Is this correct? (I did some basic searches but didn't see anything that jumped out.)

Sure. But it also means he won't be swooping next turn.

Well, you go to ground after hits and wounds are rolled. (Sorry, your post just makes it seem like you think you can GtG before then).

I don't see anything in the book saying you can't.

rigeld2 wrote:
Sure. But it also means he won't be swooping next turn.

But he's still swooping for this turn.

Sounds legit (a but weird, but really no weirder than how the cover rules already work for Swooping FMCs). He can GtG, which will result in him not being able to move next turn (which would automatically put him into Glide, as he wouldn't be moving the minimum 12" to Sweeop), and he'd only be able to Snap Shoot with his psychic shooting attacks.

Nope, read daemonic instability again

Daemonic instability only states that the unit passes pinning tests automatically, units may automatically pass pining tests, but can still choose to go to ground voluntarily, (last line of pinning rules on page 40)

Right. Nothing presently stops units with DI from Going to Ground. The Fearless USR says that Fearless units can't do it. But DI isn't Fearless.

Just leads to silly hard to hit and kill units.

Not really, it means fateweaver wouldnt be doing much next turn and he wouldnt be flying as flying has a minimum range, GTG means you cannot move next turn.

Wouldn't he only get a 3+ cover in ruins? You only get +2 bonus behind a defense line or in area terrain no?

 Shandara wrote:
Wouldn't he only get a 3+ cover in ruins? You only get +2 bonus behind a defense line or in area terrain no?

If you're on the bottom floor you're in area terrain, so you still get the +2.

Hmm, never though of that loophole. Being in area terrain but using the ruins' cover.

We thought of it day 1, decided it was odd and rule against it in our tournaments. You get the +2 to the save provided by Area Terrain in our tournaments.

That's how we played it as well, but I can see the argument for it.

Oh, the ruels definitely DO support a 2+ cover save in based ruins being possible - we just decided as a group that this seems like an unintended conflation of two rules that GW likely did not intend, and so have explicitly altered it.

No, I think you’re actually playing it by the rules, Nos.

I initially read it as supporting a 2+ when 6th first came out, thinking that Ruins were Area Terrain that gave a 4+ instead of a normal 5+. But came to believe that’s a misread. Ruins give a 4+ cover. In addition to but separate from that, Ruins with a base are ALSO Area Terrain on the ground floor only, conveying a normal 5+ Area Terrain cover save if you’re on the base but not actually 25% obscured by the walls/vertical parts of the Ruin. Going to Ground enhances an Area Terrain save (5+) ONLY by +2. Any other cover save* it only enhances by +1, like the 4+ cover save from the walls of the Ruin. So if you GtG in a Ruin and don’t have another special rule helping you (like Stealth, Shrouded, or Camo Cloaks), you’re getting at best a 3+ cover save; either from the Ruin walls +1, or the Area +2.

*Aegis Defense Line is an exception, as it has a special rule.

That's not what the rule says though Mann.
It says models that GTG in area terrain get +2 to their cover save. It does not specify +2 to their Area Terrain cover save.

4+ for Ruins (if applicable) +2 for GtG in Area terrain =2+.

rigeld2 wrote:
That's not what the rule says though Mann.
It says models that GTG in area terrain get +2 to their cover save. It does not specify +2 to their Area Terrain cover save.

4+ for Ruins (if applicable) +2 for GtG in Area terrain =2+.

But the rule is in the area terrain section, only referencing that. It is not in the ruins section. To separate out just that one sentence without taking the entirety of the rule into account is an incorrect interpretation. Essentially you're conflating two wholly different rules into the same thing.

No, I'm not.
I have gone to ground in area terrain. Therefore I get +2 to my cover save.
I have a 5+ save from area terrain available, and a 4+ from ruins.
I take the ruins save and add 2. I have a 2+ save.

The fact that Area terrain doesn't specify which cover saves the improved go to ground works on is what causes this issue.

This area terrain + ruins would only work for the first floor if the ruin is based, on any other floor since it isn't area terrain you only get the +1 and jump infantry/FMC can only land on the top level iirc.

 Lord Yayula wrote:
This area terrain + ruins would only work for the first floor if the ruin is based, on any other floor since it isn't area terrain you only get the +1 and jump infantry/FMC can only land on the top level iirc.

They might be prevented from moving up, but they can land on any floor as long as there is room.

Any model can be on the base of the ruin if it has one.

Wow. I was playing the higher levels of ruins wrong. Good to know.

 pretre wrote:
Okay, so FMCs can get cover as per LOS rules.

Most MCs are Fearless, so can't go to ground.

Daemons MCs have Daemonic Instability, not Fearless.

So that means you can have Kairos fly up into some ruins (Swooping), so Hard to Hit (6's) and then go to ground for a 2+ Cover with Reroll of 1's.

Is this correct? (I did some basic searches but didn't see anything that jumped out.)

Sure, but don't expect Daemons to be able to Go to Ground for long.

I am sorry, could somebody exsplain how the ruins/more stories building work?

We played a cityfight. I thought the above arias used the rules of true line of sight while the bottom aria used aria terain? My opponent thought it all was 4+ ruins save. He had the city fighter warlord trait so all his stuff had a good save in there. :-P

PS

On a sidenote I am also confused about fortifications and the aegis defenseline. Do my people on top of the fortification that are not in base to base with the parapet give a 4+ coversave including the icarus lascannon.

And does the aegis defensline vut both ways unless he is in base to base with it, meaning a lot of my units will have a 4+ save as well?

With ruins that have a base - if you are on the base (area terrain) you get a 5+ cover save. If you are obscured by the ruins (regardless of positioning) you get a 4+ cover save.

If you are on top of a FoR or Bastion and are obscured (most likely) you get a 4+ cover save. If you are obscured by the FoR/Bastion itself you get a 3+ cover save.

For the ADL iit is based on TLOS. If the target model is 25% or more obscured by the ADL you get a cover save, regardless of distance from it.

Okey okey okey...sooooo...

if you are in a floor (second floor) of the ruin but you have nothing between you and and oponent you get no coversave?

If a model is handeling the icarus lascannon on top of a bsation, unless you have a really big model chances are your oponent gets a really good 4+ armour save against that lascannon?

If my oponents units are very low and have bought an aegis defence line I will get a 4+ save from it?


PS: Sorry to hijack the thread.

 Niiai wrote:
if you are in a floor (second floor) of the ruin but you have nothing between you and and oponent you get no coversave?

Correct, if not on the base of the ruin, you must be obscured to gain a cover save.

If a model is handeling the icarus lascannon on top of a bsation, unless you have a really big model chances are your oponent gets a really good 4+ armour save against that lascannon?

Depends on True Line of Sight. You'll have to get down and actually look.

If my oponents units are very low and have bought an aegis defence line I will get a 4+ save from it?

Most likely. Again however, depends on true line of sight.

But it is stupid to use 110 points on an icarus lascannon i a bastion only to give units a 4+ coversave against it garanteed. Is there no way to bypass this like being in base to base with the railing or the aegis defenseline?

Then after that you assault his silly ass.