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Ok so I'm not making this army to make any friends whatsoever. I want to obliterate my opponent. Basically I'm asking the community if they can spot any flaws they can think see, basic idea... Shoot and kill anything the other guy puts down. Penal legion and Marbo come in where needed, penal legion heads for opponent objectives / deployment area.


CCS; MoF, Standard, Mortar, Bodyguard

Marbo

Penal Legion Squad

Platoon Command; Mortar
Infantry Squad, Lascannon
Infantry Squad, Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon

Platoon Command; Mortar
Infantry Squad, Lascannon
Infantry Squad, Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon

Platoon Command; Mortar
Infantry Squad, Autocannon
Infantry Squad, Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon

Platoon Command; Mortar
Infantry Squad, Autocannon
Infantry Squad, Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon

First thing that comes to mind.... Why no Aegis Defense Line? Second thing that comes to mind... There is no Ld control. You need commissars or at least a regimental standard to stop your army from running off the board. It has a LOT of shots, but you might want to mix it up a big. Throw in some Vendetta to hunt enemy flyers and template throwers. Hell Drakes and Manticores will really hurt you.....

There is a standard on my ccs, no defense line eh... I have no excuse, what is it 85 points? I can drop 5 mortars and a bodyguard, and scrape up the other 35 points from downgrading a few other guns... But why, is it that good? Also as for pie plates hurting, yes. But the good news is that even if 20 guardsmen combust in a fine pink mist, there's still like 130 more

Are you going to have the patients to paint 150 guardsmen?

I think it's closer to 200, and yes. They won't look pretty but they will be good enough to put on the table.

Naked aegis is 50pts.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Naked aegis is 50pts.

I assume I'd add the sky fire gun. But would it be worth dropping some heavy weapons

I would add a lord commissar in there somewhere just to keep guys from running off e table easily. I like the idea of thr pls as a later game outflank unit for line breaker. Not saying they are great, but stubborn makes them worth 80 points.

Also, I have guard, but I feel for you painting all those bodies.

I suppose the counter to your idea is to ask 'why not 9 artillery' and then squeeze on as many LCs/ACs after that? MoO + 9 Basilisk shots every turn? To be frank I don't know what a MoF is... it is Master of Ordance (MoO) or Officer of the Fleet (OotF)?

Really what will kill you are cover saves, pie plates, and flyers. If you have no flyers, I seriously would consider a Officer of the Fleet to stall his stuff as long as possible. Get the ADL and the Icarus and have your HQ commander run it. I also have to agree with a Lord Commissar as a second HQ to give a Ld bubble for your HWSs, or at least the bunch that fit around him. It will give your list some resilience if your opponent shoots first. Same can be said about Commissars in the blobs. Yeah, it takes away LC/AC shots, but it makes your list more durable. Otherwise your a glass cannon that hits 50% of the time and with Cover/invuln saves does 50% wounds. God save you if they get in CC with you.

Yeah I meant Officer of the Fleet (for some reason I put master of fleet) but in line with the comments I could drop all the mortars, bodyguard from the ccs, las cannons off the infantry squads, drop the auto cans off the other infantry squads, and I should be very close (don't have book on me) if not right at 2k when adding in a Commy Lord and an ageis w/ sky fire.

I'd seriously think about looking into a second CCS, if for nothing else than another standard and two more orders a turn.

It'll mean more firepower (bring it down) for less than another HWS, and you'll be surprised how quickly the area around one CCS can fill up. Especially if your opponent has blasts...

Oddly, I think by sticking with theme (man spam) you've softened the list over what you could get by expanding. Adding an Aegis line, three vendettas, and/or an allied farseer/librarian could really boost that list, IMO. DA librarian for divination, two min scout squads for outflanking, and a lascannon Dev squad adds more dimension to your list for pretty cheap.

How common are flyers in your local gaming scene?

If people don't use em, make the adjustments to max out your leadership effects/orders and run with the Las/Auto-Cannon spam.

If Flyers are more common, then throw in some Vendetta's who are trememdous at killing other flyers (3 twin linked las-cannons a turn each, seriously?) or get a defence line and load it with the gun you think you'll get the best results out of!

If Flyers are more common, then throw in some Vendetta's who are trememdous at killing other flyers (3 twin linked las-cannons a turn each, seriously?) or get a defence line and load it with the gun you think you'll get the best results out of!

I agree with everything you said here, especially in terms of the value of Vendettas. However I would like to point out that in the event of enemy flyers, he does have 20 odd lascannons shots and 44 autocannon shots. Combined with orders, I'm fairly certain he will obliterate anything. Could be wrong though..

Vendettas are also great lascannon platorms in their own right. And IMO fliers are a distinct enough animal to allow them to be the only vehicles in a list.

I'm playing in a tournament series at my local club where I'm running IG. The upcoming tournament is at 1K and I'm running a very similar list to yours except I have two vedettas running around. Reason #1: TLLC to taking out flyers is gold and reason #2: my PCS and a vet squad ride in them and hop out at opportune times to hold objectives - and they're armed with flamers and shotguns. How do you envision holding multiple objectives? One problem I've run into from time to time is that my opponent makes pretty good use of terrain and is able to get in close while taking minimal hits or get cover saves. LC and AC may have range but it may not matter if there's a reasonable amount of LOS blockers on the board. Also with that many dudes you'll never be able to fit them all behind an ADL much less within your deployment zone I agree about adding commisars. Maybe get two and merge the LC platoons and merge the AC platoons. Not sure about the Marlboro man. Every time I've used him he tends to scatter the charge right back on himself or just plane miss and then he's either killed by the charge or shot next turn - 65pts is better spent on just about anything else.

Aegis Line = GREAT for stagnant gun-line guard army.
Vendetta = take 2 in any game over 1250 points

I recently painted 80 guardsman and 13 tanks for my mech-guard (cadian) army. I did it really fast, by basically following this tutorial -->

http://www.miniwargaming.com/content/2O7trPmVOckl

It only took me around an hour to paint a squad of ten this way...

In my view, the power of this army lies in the opening salvo. It seems like a gambit hoping that the enemy will be so badly crippled by the first wave that they will no longer be able to mount an effective offence. The offensive capability of your army goes way down if you are forced to move, and it falls apart in close combat, those will be the cracks for the enemy to exploit.

The exploitation of these cracks is heavily dependent on army placement at the start of the game. If played on the 4x6 table deploying on the short edge, your furthest weapons only go 4 feet. The enemy can place his army out of range, and if he has any long range weapons (battle cannon, earth shaker cannon, or something of the like), he can essentially tear you up, while anything that tries to advance will get picked apart.

If you are playing 4x6 deploying on the long edge, then you really have two options: spread out your army line thin so the enemy can't find a corner to escape, but then much of your fire won't be available as the enemy eats into your closest forces. If you concentrate all your forces on one side, the same problem exists as deploying on the short edge.

That being said, I think this army will do very very well as long as no artillery or deep striking units are against it.

I still think you'll have issues with objective based games. God help you if the other guy is running drop pods or infiltrating hoards. My buddy played Kharne with a bunch of cultists and a 10 man squad of CSM. Both units infiltrated 18" away. Kharne and a handful of cultists got through my ADL but fortunately I was allied with SW and I had a rune priest go over and club the remaining cultists on the head. He also ran two helldrakes which if I didn't have the vendettas running around would have flamed me dead to the last man. Just saying - you need answers to flyers and a plan for when something breaches your line 'cause it will happen unless you play against the same army all the time. The quad gun is nice but not really effective against AV12 which is why you need the vendettas. I look at the quad gun as a rather expensive pair of autocannons. In my 15k list I have a allied RP with a chooser of the slain allowing him to hit on 2's. That almost makes it worth the points...

I don't think drop pod armies will be a problem if you spread out enough you should be able to keep them in front. I would try and get 2 CCS with standards for the orders. 4 "Bring it Down"s on your autocannons/lascannons should be able to bring down a few fliers.

Horde armies would be a problem for you and i think 18 lasscannons and 18 autocannons are a bit excessive. Mabie get yourself some hydras instead of auto cannon heavies because that way you can have an effective way to deal with fliers. possibly a few hellhounds could help with hoards but if there not popular in your meta i would go with some artillery because it deals with everything effectivly. I can see ymigarl genestealers tearing you to pieces though which there isnt really anyway to counteract.

Few quick responses...

I'm against taking allies really, I'm old school, playing since 2nd edition, I find the fact that I can run around with allied Dark Eldar and such kinda terrible. If Nids weren't so expensive dollar wise to play I'd make them as they aren't given the opportunity to add nonsense combos. I dimly believe IG is strong enough on their own without going lol Space Wolves/BA

Next I'm not against adding vehicles so I wouldn't mind adding in 2 Valks for air support / flying las cannons.

Also, without an ageis, would people really think I'd have trouble taking down fliers with this many heavies, not to mention if I add another CCS?

Marbo is awesome, anyone who doubts that has did it wrong, he's a suicide bomber... If his charge scatters too far, you are throwing it to far, who cares if he blows himself up, he pops in a certain spot to achieve a certain goal. Once that template is down, his job is usually done.

Drop pods... They come on, kill around 40 points of guardsmen, I return fire and kill over 40 points of whatever showed up. Fair trade to me.

Close combat. If a unit is engaged, they are dead. All other units either move back to a safe range, or fire at what is standing over their buddy's corpse. Is this tactic flawed?

Infiltration, you want to start closer to me, or come in off a board edge and not charge me? Ok cool, squad broken, squad destroyed...

Fliers also won't have room to land due to the massive body count, you can dictate where they go, correct?

Yeah, ok you're right you have a lot of dakka going on there. You're biggest Achilles heel is getting to objectives, though. Maybe take a valk and stick the penal legion in there - or trade them for a vet squad and load up on flamers. At least you should be able to cover two objectives - the one the valk riders hold and one you could put in easy reach of your fire base.

 necron99 wrote:
Yeah, ok you're right you have a lot of dakka going on there. You're biggest Achilles heel is getting to objectives, though. Maybe take a valk and stick the penal legion in there - or trade them for a vet squad and load up on flamers. At least you should be able to cover two objectives - the one the valk riders hold and one you could put in easy reach of your fire base.

I agree with adding the fliers, 2 of those possibly, if I take them I'll drop the penal legion, bodyguard, mortars and heavies from infantry platoons to add in flame vets.

But if I add the vendettas or valks (whichever is better for anti-air) would I still need ageis?

For an army like this dont take allies.

I suggest 2 CCS with lascannon/standard as it gives you some bs4 lascannons and also gives more orders and helps keep your guys on the table. Commissars are only good for the squad they are attached too and they dont allow you to reroll morals after youve gotten lit up by your opponent.

For ANY IG gunline you really should have an aegis defense line because now that area terrain is 5+ the 4+ cover will really allow you to take less casualties and maintain maximum firepower longer. The quad gun give you a little better AA firepower instead of wasting half your army fire at fliers. Vendettas shouldnt scare you because they shoot 3 lascannons, thats 3 dead guardsmen....theres still like 197 guardsmen to go. Hell drakes will probably be scary but if you fill your deployment zone they cant vector strike you and fly over so you can really mess their flight path and make them fly off the board every other turn which will minimize how often they blast you.

Dont add vehicles as it lessens target saturation and allows your opponent to focus anti tank weapons on them...unless you add vendettas for anti air and if that I would only add two at most because 3 will really start to take away your ground forces.

So add another CCS, MoO is up too you as is OotF but deffinitly have a lsacannon/sttandard.

Add a defense line with quad and your gunlne is very solid.

And if you truly are afraid of fliers then go for some vendettas for anti air. But if you do that make your PCS have x4 flamers and let them deal with horde and grabbing objectives and line breaker, that way you can drop the penal legion.

Hope this helps!

Tankboy145 you have won this thread. I'll make the changes tonight and post: adding a second CCS, las cans to CCS, aegis. I'm not going to add fliers of my own, I'll rely on the aegis. Also keeping the penal legion for late grabbing since I will be lacking the air transport to hop to an objective.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Update w/ some suggestions:


HQ:

CCS; Officer of Fleet, Standard, Lascannon

CCS; Bodyguard, Standard, Lascannon

Elite:

Marbo

Troops:

Penal Legion Squad

Platoon Command
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon

Platoon Command
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon

Platoon Command
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon

Platoon Command
Infantry Squad
Infantry Squad
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon

Aegis Defense Line, Quad-Gun

2000 points on the dot. The bodyguard in CCS #2 was filler for 15 points, I could replace w/ a plasma gun or 3x flamers or mix and match whatever for 15 points.

So, thoughts now? Is this enough


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh and thats 195 guardsmen w/ a fence and quad gun

I like it, I was gunna say try and get 5 more points as you could add camo cloaks to CCS which will grant a 3+ cover but as I looked there really isnt anything to take points from but I would maybe suggest giving krak grenades to squads or melta bombs as well but thats your call.

 tankboy145 wrote:
I like it, I was gunna say try and get 5 more points as you could add camo cloaks to CCS which will grant a 3+ cover but as I looked there really isnt anything to take points from but I would maybe suggest giving krak grenades to squads or melta bombs as well but thats your call.

Yeah Camo Cloaks would be nice, another variation I'm thinking would be more like this (this list drops some bare infantry squads in favor for some mobility and a little variation):

CCS; Officer of Flt, Lascannon Standard, Camo Cloaks
CCS; Master of Ord, Lascannon, Standard, Camo Cloaks

Guardsman Marbo

Platoon Command; Lascannon
Infantry Squad, Lascannon
Infantry Squad, Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Lascannon

Platoon Command; Autocannon
Infantry Squad, Autocannon
Infantry Squad, Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon
Heavy Weapon Squad, 3x Autocannon

Penal Legion Squad

Veteran Squad, Demolitions, Flamer

Vendetta

Aegis, Quad gun

Again 2k on the dot... I like this one... May try this first.

Does make your PISs and PCSs less useless.

Try the second and see how it goes and if not much luck go back to the first. But having less infantry squads means you have less to deal with anti horde. The masses lasgun fire was about all you had for anti horde.

 tankboy145 wrote:
Try the second and see how it goes and if not much luck go back to the first. But having less infantry squads means you have less to deal with anti horde. The masses lasgun fire was about all you had for anti horde.

You don't think the mass auto cannon fire would work vs. horde? I was also thinking about adding a 50 man conscript blob with a commissar to run into anything that gets close and for first rank fire order.