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I've been tooling a list that hybridizes mech guard and foot guard. I find it alleviates their respective weaknesses, without affecting their strengths as much.

Here's the list thus far:

CCS + MG x4
Vets + MG x3
Vets + MG x3
PCS + MG x4
Chimera x4

IS + AC/GL
IS + AC/GL
IS + AC/GL
IS + AC/GL

Leman Russ Battle Tank x2 + HB Spons
Manticore
Manticore

Works pretty good, covers most bases. I don't have PGs, but I spam MGs enough to deal with most AS 2+ targets.

I'm thinking of dropping a chimera and 4 MGs from the PCs, and instead giving every other IS a commissar; given the mission, I can choose to have an overly stubborn squad of 40, or two stubborn squads of 20. I could also upgrade their ACs to LCs, and have 5 points leftover for something else.

Do you see anything blatantly wrong with this list? I've only worked it on my own, so I still need peer review. Also, I want to try to fit in Space Wolves allies to make use of the 5+ Cover bubble from the RP.

I really don't see what the infantry platoons are adding to this list. Their firepower is awful, and they only up the number of bodies to 70, which really isn't that much.

It sort of looks like you took a mech list and watered down your russes and vets so that you could fluff in a few scoring units.

If you wanted to do this, I think you'd probably be better off buy dropping the number of infantry squads down to 2, and then finding points for chenkov with some SiTNW conscripts. That way you get much better backfield fluff units to hold objectives while you make more room for harder units like russes and mechvets.

Agree with dropping one or two of the platoons.. Also look to drop those hvy bltrs, your better of scooting and shooting so don't spend 40 points on 6's to hit.. Have you thought about flyers???


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ps exchange GL for flamers

Basically, gunline objective holders. I find Mechvets are too fragile in 6th to properly hold an objective, so unless I reserve them and make a mad dash at the end, I won't be holding onto much. I could play to destroy whatever holdings my opponent has, but I find it more suitable to do that and to hold objectives as well.

Yes, not the greatest firepower, but cheap and still useful. chenkov + conscripts would cost far more than the two squads.

EDIT: @Spaz, I use the heavy bolters as a sort of alternate fire mode for my Russes; battlecannons on marines/light vehicles, heavy bolters on mobs. Besides, it makes weapon destroyed results not a death knell to them; instead of 50% chance of a destroyed cannon, its 25%, and even if it does get destroyed, the LR still has 9 S5 AP4 shots.

Also, yea, flamers or GLs is still being tossed around in my head. Since the model itself moving determines if a heavy weapon can fire or not, I use GLs to advance and fire.

@Both of you: By platoons, you mean squads, right?

Right.

And you could fit conscripts in there. For example...

CCS - 4x meltaguns, chimera

Vets - 3x meltaguns, chimera
Vets - 3x meltaguns, chimera

PCS - Chenkov, lascannon
PIS - lascannon, grenade launcher
PIS - lascannon
Conscripts (20) - Send in the Next Wave!

Leman Russ Exterminator - lascannon
Leman Russ Exterminator - lascannon

Manticore

Manticore


So, same basic list as you had before. You lose a chimera, 6 heavy bolters (and their equivalents) 4 meltaguns, a grenade launcher, and two crappy battlecannons.

You gain an infinitely respawning scoring unit, 4 autocannons, and 5 lascannons. The firepower is only a little bit worse, and whatever durability you lost with the chimera is way more than made up with by your gains from the conscripts. Plus, it actually accomplishes what you're trying to achieve better as well, as in this case the infantry platoon is actually giving your chimeras more durability (bubble wrap), and is far more guaranteed to be able to hold objectives on your side of the board.

Not sure how I feel about Exterminators; they're just a bulletproof HWS.

Not sure what you have against the battlecannon, but at least its something different, ie, you can have autocannons without LRs, but you cant have battlecannons without LRs. Besides, they filled an anti-MEQ role.

The problem is that the exterminator cannon is better or equal to the battlecannon against every target in the game except AV14 (which the battlecannon is pretty crappy against), and clumped-up marines in the open. They can also target fliers, which the battlecannon can't do at all. And it can fire its main gun without forcing everything else to snap fire.

I have nothing personal against the battlecannon, it's just that it's worse.

That said, I kind of question why you're bothering with russes at all here. You'd probably be better served taking those russ points and putting them into another manticore and another mechvet squad, or something.

Target saturation, more specifically, Lascannon absorption; instead of those Lcs or similar weapons firing at my weaker chimeras, they're shooting at my russes. I don't play a highly comp meta, so perfect optimisation is not necessary, just looking for glaring mistakes.

I just hate Conscripts... all they give you are raw bodies, and that is if the objective is reasonable close to the table edge to make the re-spawn viable. You have Orks minus a better gun and T 4. I would also take Colossi over Exterminators... little Camo Netting, ADL, some infantry in the rear for support... maybe a gun on that ADL to kill flyers. Then your all set.

I will also point out, to keep the Conscripts from coming in, all you have to do is kill Chenkov... which isn't hard to do since he wants to fire that LC and will thus be exposed, yet he can't have Camo Cloaks or anything...so 5+ Cover saves on average on a 5 man squad... make that 4 man with the HWT. And since he wants to be close to the edge, he can run and be gone before you can do anything about it. Then the Conscripts are easy to break and your 'home defenders' are running Turn 1 and never coming back. Yeah... and then to make this work you have to have a Lord Commissar and keep him within 6" of the PCS and Conscript unit. Ironicly this guy can have a Camo Cloak to keep Chenkov alive but will execute him on a failed Leadership test...any Leadership test. This headache is just not worth it for a unit that is doing /nothing/ for you, and who's best ability is going to ground. Or play dumb people who ignore Chenkov.

Shad, your core list concept is fine, but it needs tweaks to work better. If your not going to win objective games (since the vets have to get out to contest/take the objective anyways), you need to win on points. You want Linebreaker, First Blood, Slay the Warlord, ect... that is the game you have to play, so build your list to give you these points and keep them from your opponent. Why run your Warlord out there to be killed, for example?

Run a CCS, but keep him in the back with Camo Cloaks, a LC, Banner+Plasma or 2 Plasma. Now your CCS can give orders to your blob, itself, the PCS, whoever. You have 2 Orders, use them. Keep him alive to not give your opponent the point(s).

I do think you want 3-4 Chimeras attacking your foe, so look at a combo or 3 Vets+ PCS or 4 Vets. Meltas are fine, go Multi-laser and hull flamer to take care of cover save based troops (snap fire the Multi-laser if you fire the Flamer) and hoards. Just keep these troops cheap, as the Chimera is jacking up their cost enough.

Then make your blob. Yes, look at LCs and Plasma with a Commissar. They are not moving, they are camping your rear objective. If you can afford to make them 30-40 strong, go for it, but you will probably need the points on your heavy slots or even a ADL to sit in front of them. A Regimental Banner next to them gives you a re-roll option to avoid the Commissar execution and the Commissar increases their Ld for Orders.

Heavy slots... personally, I think Manticores took a hit in this edition because you /can/ run out of ammo in 6th and the rockets are 50% gone on a weapon destroyed. I think Cover is king in this edition and having something to ignore cover (really...Invisibility, Turbo, and Jink) will give you a huge edge. But you know what...do what you want. End of the day, you have what you have and this crap is expensive. Camo Netting is huge though to keep the stuff that isn't moving alive. I will point out having something to push up with the Chimeras and that can fire any and all of it's guns should also be considered. If they are firing on it, they are not firing on your Chimeras. I think Plasma-cutioners can fit this bill, depending on points.

Flyers... you need /something/ here. This area can not be ignored for long and even if you do, your friends or meta will not. Either get some AA (ADL gun) or a Vendetta. If you can get a Icarus Lascannon your ADL will only cost 85pts and protect your CCS and blob that is protecting your rear heavies.

Remember what I said about points? Marbro, for 65pts can give you linebreaker (if he lives). He can also wreck some stuff. It is /really/ being silly to not have him in a list nowdays if you can fit him in.

I hope this gives you some food for thought. Just remember, it is a game... have fun!

Shadelkan wrote:instead of those Lcs or similar weapons firing at my weaker chimeras, they're shooting at my russes.

Why would your opponents do that?

Were we talking about some serious russes like a las/multimelta punisher, or something that was REALLY threatening, then perhaps. Otherwise, there's no reason not to point those lascannons straight at your scoring units, especially when a vehicle explodes result could easily kill half of them.

BlkTom wrote:I just hate Conscripts... all they give you are raw bodies

They give you a permanent scoring unit. Nothing else in the game can claim this.

BlkTom wrote:I will also point out, to keep the Conscripts from coming in, all you have to do is kill Chenkov...

This isn't true.

SitNW is a unit upgrade like a lascannon or camo netting. Nowhere in the codex does it say that chenkov must be alive in order to use the ability. The only thing it says is that you need to purchase chenkov in order to be able to unlock the ability to purchase SitNW.

BlkTom wrote:Flyers... you need /something/ here. This area can not be ignored for long

Ignoring fliers and focusing on winning the ground game is a viable strategy.

If fliers are really being that much of a problem, then give those lascannon exterminators sponson multimeltas.

I will point out the only thing listing in the Errata...

Q. Chenkov allows you to remove a Conscript Squad. What
happens to any independent characters that were attached to that
squad? (p65)
A. They are removed as casualties and do not return with the
new unit.

After reading 'Send in the Next wave' leads me to believe that you need Chenkov alive to actually send in the next wave of Conscripts. I will note that with your 'reading' of the rule, you would never be able to kill Chenkov's PCS either, because he has 'Send in the Next Wave' because it does not say 'conscripts', but unit. We all know this is not possible and it leads us to believe that you need Chenkov to have this rule to be on the table to use it. I will also point out in the FAQ that no where in the 'Send in the Next Wave' rule does it state Chenkov has the ability to destroy the squad, but yet the FAQ tells you he does have this ability. Thus your interpretation of the rule is not accurate and thus does not mean that any tourney will allow how you see it as fact.

I will not ague you this on this player's thread, I will not argue it beyond this post. It is at best a questionable interpretation.

Read the rule from Chenkov's entry again. Very first sentence, "Any army that includes Commander Chenkov may purchase this special rule for any of its conscript squads, as described in the army list." Notice how it says the rule may be purchased for conscript squads?

Now go the next paragraph, "Any unit with this rule..." That implies that it is NOT Chenkov that has the rule, rather that it is as I pointed out previously, it is bought for the unit. Chenkov merely unlocks that option.

In other words it's the same as Chapter tactics for Marines, you bring an HQ with a specific Chapter tactics you lose combat tactics, and it never goes away even if the character dies. This is a rule bought for the conscripts squad, and it will be in effect even if Chenkov dies, because the unit now has the rule because it was bought for them.