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After playing power armour for the last year i wanted to start something totally different.

I love tryranids, own the codex but just don't know where to start! What would be a good starting point? I often play 500 point games with friends so that would be a good place to start, but what models are must have, and what should i avoid?

I like the look of hordes, but DO NOT want a tervigon just yet (not till i have a substantial amount of gaunts) I'm not gonna be entering tournaments, i just want friendly games with a cool looking, maybe semi competative force.

Any help would be great, thanks!

I would just buy the Tervigon for a small game HQ. Im just starting out with them; I plan on having two Termigaunt squads w/ Devourers fully painted and then maybe 4 more boxes of base Terms either sprayed or just quicky paint jobs.

After that Ill scoop up a Hive Tyrant, another Tervigon, and a Zoanthrope to use for a Doom. Then some Hive Guards.

As I tell people on The Tyranid Hive, when people want to start Nids, what kind of player are you? Are you a shooty or assault player? You want hordes, but do you also want MC or mixture of all of them? I guess since you don't want Tervigons, does this mean you don't want the Hive Tyrant either?

I would start with the codex, read it, see what you like. Also, I would get the battleforce box set and work from there. What you don't use, can be used as "counts as".

What I like:

Hive Tyrant w/ Lash and bone sword. Devorers w/ BLWorms. Old Adv.

Hive Guard 8str ap4 shoots around cover. Hoooorayyyyyy!

Zoanthropes and the Doom of course.

I love the Death Leaper even tho he isn't point effective and takes a Nid coveted elite slot.

Spore Pods w/ Twin Death Spitters. They are sooo good. I always put my 10 Termagants that are required to buy a Tervigone as a troop choice in one. They can get line breaker and steal and objective or at the very least contest one.

Tervigone. I love spawning units.

Harpy -- kills Hords dead w/ normal load out. if upgraded for 10pts it is the least expensive way to get t.win linked HVCs.

Biovores - Barrage - need I say more?


Situational:

Steelers - can be good if dropped w a doom and zoans. They wont get targeted till after the the doom and zoans are gone.

Tyranofex - I always liked the 10str assault 2 cannon. Don't leave him behind cover for too long b/c he can really get into the mix w/ 6 wounds and armor save of 2.

Tyrgon: I know people love him but I'd always rather units for the points.

Hated:

Never like Warriors. Don't know why.

Hormagaunts. Not my style.

Carnifexs. Too Expensive for too little.

Just don't what I did when I started nids (my first 40K army) and buy models just because they're big/look cool. I still have like 5 carnifexes collecting dust.

Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Just don't what I did when I started nids (my first 40K army) and buy models just because they're big/look cool. I still have like 5 carnifexes collecting dust.

That's a pity. Mine win games for me.

Are you using terrain in your games? Because that stops them from dying.

I bet you are using Twin linked shooting Fexs?

One, the other is a screamer killer which occasionally moonlights as a stranglethorne platform.

Though even dakkafexes need cover - their 18" range doesn't help when their prime counter has over twice their range.

Seriously - simply using the recommended amount of cover makes Carnifexes 100% more survivable, since they're shorter than a single storey building, whereas Trygons, Tyrants and Tervigons tower over them.

My last game I took a trio of screamer killers. was it over 600 something points for a single unit? yeah... but boy howdy did they do their job. Squad of WGT, a land raider,
and a squad of long fangs all died to them, with me not losing a single one, mostly because I'm one of those crazy people who takes regeneration a lot...

But back on topic; With tyranids, you have a few things you pretty much need:
1. A hive tyrant - synapse, great in CC, potentially great shooting, PE bubble, and more. Expensive when kitted out, but this is mostly balanced by the fact that gribblies are generally dirt cheap

2. Other synapse - Usually in the form of tervigons and/or zoanthropes for me. Though on occasion i will take a 3 man unit or two of warriors with a barbed strangler to pin units. Striking at initiative through cover is great tbh. Might even convert up a harpy for this

3. Gribbles - Lots of them. Most people only take the token 10 man termagant squads so they can have tervigon troops. While a sound strategy, as tervigons are amazing, I like to have some other things to provide a distration. Usually in the form of Devilgants in a pod, a blob of
hormagaunts, and especially gargoyles (whom I still need to fix their magnetic stands... grumblegrumble...)

4. Monster support - never leave home without a few big hitty things. Most take trygons, because...well...trygons are amazing. 200 pts for 6 T6 wounds, 6 attacks, a 6 shot weapon.

Thanks for the advice. I would prefer a more assault based force to a shooty one. I love hormagaunts and genestealers and think that Tyrants look amazing as warlords. I'm thinking of starting with a battleforce and Tyrant. is this a good way to go? if so how should i equip everything?

If you're looking for a fairly cheap and cheerful Tyranid "horde" army that does not revolve around Tervigons then I would recommend the following:

1x Hive Tyrant boxed set (arm and model as you wish, it's all good)
2x Tyranid Battleforce (the core of your army, giving you a good flavour of the basic units)
1x Broodlord (give him Biomancy and he makes the Genestealers much better)
3x Zoanthropes (very useful anti-armour, covering a key weakness of the Tyranid list and if you're not playing a mech-heavy opponent then you can take Biomancy)

This should bring you to around 1000pts, and from there you can see what units you like the feel of. Genestealers and Hormagaunts should really have Toxin Sacks for maximum effect, and while both units are very fragile on their own you'll find that if you can get Endurance on them then suddenly they are much harder to bring down. Weight of numbers helps too.

This brings me on to the Hive Tyrant, Broodlord and Zoanthropes; these units can all take Biomancy, which really boosts the power of your units. Get used to this; it's one of the best things about Tyranids this edition, and it doesn't have to be based around Tervigons either (though they are very good at it).

Once you've experimented with a horde like that, you can see what you want to add. Do you want even more horde? Maybe add a Tervigon, some Gargoyles or even more Termagants/Hormagaunts. Did you find the Hive Tyrant really satisfying and effective? If so, maybe add another, or a Trygon or two. Mech giving you a headache? Throw in some Hive Guard or Carnifexes.

As said in prev posts it all depends on the way you like to play and how big your games tend to be . And also well worth considering do you want to paint up 100's of Nids . I think to start with a couple of battle forces is a good start . The Doom is some thing you want to consider early because as you will learn its kind of a must have due to its points and what it'can' do. I disagree with one point about not getting the cool looking big MC they are all good if you use them in the right way. And hell they are some of the best looking models in 40k. The thing about Nids is they are so fun to play with and you will enjoy when you make mistakes at first like forgetting about synapse at the key point of the game or watching one of your big MC learn what force weps are for. Good luck check out my Tyranids YouTube for tips and tactics .
https://www.youtube.com/user/Acefacehickers

I don't want to avoid MC, I really want a Trigon and i have always loved Carnifex. I just get bored of all the lists which consist of 3 Tervigon and some Teragants. Think i will be getting a Battle force and Tyrant first, probably followed by another battle force, or more gaunts before going for some Fex support. Thanks for all the advice! i'm glad to hear non tervigon based suggestions.

I've basically decided this will be my second army. I agree with the above statement. I really hate running the same lists of an army that everyone else does. Gets boring.

However with 'nids, it doesn't seem like there are as many options as with other armies.

I'll be starting out the same way, with a Tyrant and battleforce. My biggest dilemma for the moment is deciding whether to bother with a swarm of Genestealers, or keep it mostly to Hormagaunts and Termagants with Tervigons for troops.

That's awesome. The codex is pretty varied i think, although a lack of anti tank and next to zero anti are are a draw back. At least with HP you can glance vehicles to death with rending fairly easily. I will no doubt invest in a Tervigon later, but think i'll build a full 1k without first.

 stargasm wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I would prefer a more assault based force to a shooty one.

The biggest bit of advice for Tyranids EVER is they are NOT purely an assault army. They are mean in assault, and any unit they have that's assault based hits like a ton of bricks, but you have three things to consider.

1. You need to get there first.
2. You are fairly fragile in assault when hits start coming back
3. Your opponents WILL be in cover

So, you need to soften the enemy up on the way, and they need to be on the back foot when you get there. You're also going to take casualties, so you don't want to leave their big killy shooting units alone to just keep shooting and killing. So you're going to want ranged ability.

Tyranids do short-mid ranged anti infantry firepower amazingly well, mostly in the form of Devourers. Assault 3, S3 doesn't sound great until you also realise you'll have 20 Termagants firing them. 60 S3 shots will make most people take notice. Monstrous creatures have their own firepower - Dakkafexes and Tyrants with Devourers put out 12 twin linked S6 shots a turn.

Then there's long ranged firepower. Tyranids have it, but they don't do it particularly well. Biovores are the best at it, lobbing 3 S4 pie plates at 48" from a brood of 3, which is super heap as well. Those pie plates also simply land and scatter around if they miss until someone trips over one. The Tyrannofex is another option, with the only S10 gun, with a 48" range. It's fairly inaccurate, but it might serve you well. It's also one tough SOB and has a plethora of anti infantry weapons as well.

For going without Tervigons, simply go with large broods to start with. Tervigon lists work by starting with small broods and pooping out small broods during the game, but multiple large broods tend to be a headache for most people. Run Hormagaunts and Termagants in broods between 20-30 models. Back them up with Zoanthropes for Synapse, and also give your Zoanthropes Biomancy. If you're lucky, some will get Endurance. Large broods with FNP are an even bigger headache. If you can fit it, put a Venomthrope in as well. As long as one model is within 6" of it, the whole brood gets a 5+ cover save. Large broods with 5+ cover, 5+ FNP are pretty survivable.

If you want to go Carnifexes, steer clear of Crushing Claws and Deathspitters. Deathspitters cost the same as Devourers, but MC Devourers are simply better. Crushing Claws... are just not worth it. If you want a meleefex, leave it with two pairs of scything talons, and give it toxin sacs. Under the new rules, it'll wound on 2+ with rerolls against basically everything. If you want to give it anti tank punch, give it adrenal glands as well to boost it to S10 on the charge. For ranged, Devourers. They're amazingly powerful. Heavy Venom Cannons and Strnaglethorn Cannons can work, but your best bet is simply Devourers.

For anti tank, I don't find Hive Guard are necessary anymore. The large amount of MC's you have access to can deal with AV13-14 in assault now, since vehicles are particularly slow. AV10-12 can be dealt with with MC Devourers stripping hull points, or again, MC's in assault. Take a Flying Hive Tyrant with dual Devourers if you suspect your opponent has flyers. They're fairly durable (especially if you roll Iron Arm from Biomancy and get T9 on the turn the flyer comes on), and you can position them to launch and kill a flyer on the turn they arrive. They're your best bet for anti flyer, basically.

Loki,
Would you say a Flying Hive Tyrant is worth it even if the opponent has no fliers, or just forgo the wings until then?

When it comes with Tyrants with or without wings, both are good.

With wings, you will get to the enemy a lot quicker. Either gear him up to get as many shots as possible or go as effectively as possible in CC.

Without wings, you will want to give him guard. He will be a big target, and giving him extra wounds for shooting purposes will not hurt.

With my preference in playing, I usually go with a pretty swarmy based army. Poisoned hormagaunts are the way to go, IMO. Take as many as you possibly can in a list, but keep the unit sizes at least 25 models. This will ensure that you will make it to your opponent.

I usually have the Swarmlord running behind the Horms, keeping them within Synapse before they go charging into combat.

Synapse will also be important to your army. To fill these rolls, I like Trygon Primes and Zoanthropes to do this job. They are also specialized as well. Trygon Primes to get into CC and keep your foe confused on who to shoot. The T6 W6 monster, or the swarm of guants about to hit them. Zoanthropes are a solid anit-tank or helmet unit, so also a big threat.

Another favorite unit for taking out vehicles are the Hive Guard. No LoS needed, cannot by instant killed by ranged weapons, and a St 8 weapon is nothing to scoff at.

There are many useful units in the codex that many people overlook. Others look better on paper than on table. Lictors for example. They are very difficult to use well, but can be entertaining in smaller games.

Pretty much, build as you see fit, and learn to play as you like. In my flgs, there are two Tyranid Players.

Myself who plays swarm. Then another who plays Nidzilla. Both of us do well. It's up to your personal preference on that.

Yes a flyrant is always effective . Better vs a non flyer list due to it be less likely to die. The main thing is to take it with tl devours you want to use her to try and get you first blood she has an amazing chance with 12 s6 tl shots and due to the HT being a character on 6's to hit you can select the target ie take out that horrible banner or that heavy template that's going to pie plate your swam. I would not say that they are a must in every game but with wings and devours it is such a around unit . It can take out loads of infantry light tanks it can smash on heavy tanks . And so much more. http://www.youtube.com/user/Acefacehickers

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:
Loki,
Would you say a Flying Hive Tyrant is worth it even if the opponent has no fliers, or just forgo the wings until then?

Absolutely. The three friends I've unleashed it on have no flyers, and each game is earns its points back at least twice. Give it dual devourers, and it'll just chew through any unit not wearing power armour and even AV12 vehicles. Against power armour, you'll inflict casualties, though not at the rapid rate other armies take casualties. Then there's its psychic powers - give it Biomancy, and it'll rarely roll something you can't use.

Hive Tyrant is a king of a table, especialy with TL devourers with worms. Flyrant makes people cry. The model looks great and deadly and is scary on the battefield but noone can whine undercosted or sth, total win. In fact I prefer the design over Alien Queen and standard Alien now which I'd never though will be possible. Actualy after last game I wanted to make a thread only about how I love Hive Tyrants and want at least 4 with various gear and a Swarmlord. Yes I reccomend it.

Carnifexes are definately usable and with los blocking terrain pieces on the table actualy very good, Tanks and Dreadnoughts crack open on touch.

I wanted to skip Tervigons as well because 40k hipster and all but couldn't resist the looks (hate the termagant coming out of it though) and bought one. No spam though, that's boring.

I use Warriors one unit with deathspitters and the other boneswords and whip, basic Genestealers, Hormagaunts I like variety with nids. Not best choices but for example Warriors and their famous lack of EW, that's sometimes an advantage as they just beg fire at me your high S weapon, can create a target priority error for your opponent.if used right.

Basicaly a lot of good advice above, I say take what you like unless it's a Pyrovore you can think of some uses for it. Depends ofc of how competitve you want to be, if you want tournaments then Trygons, Zoanthropes, Tervigons, Flyrants are safe choice.