Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Okay, here is an attempt at writing a balanced 1999+1 list ( possibly all comers ? ) for Daemons = Mono Tzeentch.

The two Heralds that are joined to the units of Pink Horrors take the Primaris Powers for Divination ( Prescience ) & Change ( Flickering Fire ) plus one other because of the Mastery Level - ideally though, and with the ELoC it will allow the unit to have rerollable misses with 7d6 S6 shots.

The Third Herald on Disc joins the Screamers, with the hopes of them benefitting from the Grimoire of True Names ( 3++ ) and more than likely taking two powers from Change ( Flickering Fire ) and one roll on Divination.

Lastly, the pair of Daemon Princes create havoc & disruption where they can. Their Mastery Level giving them 4d6 with Flickering Fire as a Change Primaris, then two other rolls on Biomancy. The Lesser Rewaed is a simple swap for a Staff of Tzeentch, while the two Greaters are used to buff the Daemon Princes - possibly even swapping one of them for a Greater Etherblade = at the least a +1 attack for having two Specialist Weapons.


ML3 Lord of Change
Rewards: Greater ( 2 ) & Lesser

ML3 Herald of Tzeentch
Exalted Locus of Conjuration
Rewards: Greater

Pink Horrors of Tzeentch ( 18 )

ML3 Herald of Tzeentch
Exalted Locus of Conjuration
Rewards: Greater

Pink Horrors of Tzeentch ( 18 )

ML3 Herald of Tzeentch on Disc
Rewards: Exalted ( Grimoire )

Screamers of Tzeentch ( 9 )

ML3 Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
Armour & Flight
Rewards: Greater ( 2 ) & Lesser

ML3 Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
Armour & Flight
Rewards: Greater ( 2 ) & Lesser

Looks pretty good, don't know how you're going to deal with anti-tank though.

 Makutsu wrote:
Looks pretty good, don't know how you're going to deal with anti-tank though.

there are three FMC with str 8 (lesser tzeentch daemonic weapon) that can pretty much break tanks, and when facing AV14 They can smash if needed, so i don't think anti tank is a problem. The problem is low troop count. The horrors will not hold against focused fire for long. Maybe drop the disc herald and screamers and get four 11 strong horror units instead for some more tzeentch dakka?

If you are willing to break the fluffyness, this list can be seriously improved by trimming a few points and adding 10 plaguebearers with an instrument. This gives you another scoring unit (desperately needed) and protection against the Warp Storm table for your entire army. First I'd trim the Greater Rewards off of your walking heralds. The defensive bonuses won't matter and the melee weapons are even less useful since your unit is going to get slaughtered by instability as soon as something competent in CC gets stuck in. This gives you 40 points of the 100 you need. Next I'd probably trim from the psychic levels or Greater Rewards on the Daemon Princes, though I'm not really sure which. You are sinking so many points into your princes that you really want the defensive buffs from the Greater Rewards but the rolls on Biomancy are hugely important if you want to be able to survive against armies that can bring large amounts of S10. Even the Flickering Fire is pretty solid since the ~7 S5 shots it makes is passable as anti-air if you can hit their AV10 bits.

If you just want to stick with Tzeentch and Monster Mash, this seems pretty close to optimal. I'd still drop the Greater Rewards from the walking heralds and max out the Horror Squads for a teeny bit more survivability for your troops.

Yes..it's a pretty good list..i like it.
I run another LOC instead...but i see whre your going with your heralds.
Not much to say, good job.

Do the Tzeentch Daemon Princes vector strike at strength 8 against those flyers or at strength 6?

List looks good mine has kairos and one big blob of 20 horrors with 3 heralds Lvl 3, 1 with conjuration loci and grimoire of true names.

With kairos my list aims to keep the 20 horrors always alive with their 2++ rerollable save. I hope for the 34/36 chance on grimoire and a chance that I get the 4++ invul roll on divination (although with my 6+ rolls on divination it should be easy) Basically I try and keep targets from utilizing the warpflame special rule by absolutely demolishing them.

The Deny The Witch rule was getting annoying with my 1 herald each squads of horrors so now I put out grimoire w/ kairos reroll if needed -> kairos prescience -> 1 herald casts forewarning (4++) -> one herald casts misfortune -> 4d6 s6 ap4 from squad -> 4d6 same from herald 1 -> 3d6 same from herald 2 -> 3d6 same from herald 3 for a total of 14d6 which on average will be like 10d6 against no anti-psycher and 7d6 against anti-psycher stuff.

If I am playing against armor save 4+ and above I also cast perfect timing (no cover saves allowed) from one of the heralds that rolls it (statistically one should)

So all in all it ends up being all passed psychic tests (kairos helps lean this if he wasnt used before), average 10d6 s6 ap4 ignores cover shots, 4d6 at BS3 the other 6d6 average at BS4 rerolling to hit, the opponent must reroll passed saves, and the squad is unkillable with their 2++ rerollable.

Pbakes wrote:
Do the Tzeentch Daemon Princes vector strike at strength 8 against those flyers or at strength 6?

Vector Strike can't benefit from Wargear or Special Rules, so VS is based on the stat line of the model--for DPs, it's Str6.
-----------------------
To the OP:

1. don't forget that the Herald holding the Grimoire does NOT get a bonus to his own Invuln.

2. I think that 225pts in Screamers is too much. Ini3, WS3 is not going to kill MEQ or TEQ--the one AP2 attack from each Screamer doesn't do much at WS3. Your DPs and LoC are beasts in combat--rely on them, not on Screamers. Remove the Screamers entirely, and that's enough for another LoC.

3. Since the Heralds are going to be buffing Horror squads, there's not much reason for them to get Greater Rewards. The rolls (like FNP, or IWND) won't be used because there will be Horrors in front taking wounds instead of the Herald. And the CC choices aren't useful--the Herald is dead if he ever gets into a challenge anyhow.

4. I also think you should skip the Lesser rewards on the FMCs. Two Greater rolls is more than enough.

5. I think that units of 10 Horrors might be the way to go. Here's a thread in YMDC examining the pros/cons of Horrors:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/514552.page#5408806
10 Horrors, Two Heralds, both with Flickering Fires, one with Beguilement, one with Prescience would put out 6D6 twin-linked Str6 shots. Costs 230pts. To get rid of all this, the enemy would have to kill all 12 models, who would have a 5++ (or could GtG in terrain, since twin-linked snap-fire is still not too bad).

6. Shaving off the Herald's Greater and the FMCs Lesser nets about 70pts. If you take away a few Horrors from the two big squads, that's enough points to make another 10 Horrors, which will help with objective games. DS that small squad late in the game so they survive.

Screamers are good at taking out AV10 Back armor vehicles. On the first combat turn you just charge in and glance things to death with the sheer number of attacks. Only use the lambreys bite when trying to destroy a landrider or a walker.

 masquerade81 wrote:
Screamers are good at taking out AV10 Back armor vehicles. On the first combat turn you just charge in and glance things to death with the sheer number of attacks. Only use the lambreys bite when trying to destroy a landrider or a walker.

This might be a good use for them, but at what cost?

Assume other player goes first, so that their transports are close enough to assault bottom of one. Your Screamers move in. Let's say you're assaulting a Rhino, with Rear AV 10. With one Screamer (assume it doesn't get killed in combat), it's 4A. Hits on 3 = 2.66hits; glance on 6 = .44444 glances, which isn't even 1/2 a hull point. Two Screamers is closer to the cost of a Rhino.
Now, you wouldn't use just one Screamer. So let's try with the nine in the OP. 36 hits on 3 = 24hits; glance on 6 = 4 glances. That's a very dead Rhino. But now you've spend 225 points on a 35pt Rhino

It's difficult to assess how this tactically affects the rest of the table, since you've snubbed their advance, and tied up a lot of shooting to kill those Screamers (I calculated that the Tac Squad would kill ~1.5 Screamers in the next shooting phase, so the enemy will need to dedicate lots more.)

BUT why not spend those points on other things. 17 Seekers with a Rapturous Standard is 224 (compare to 9 Screamers), WS5 and the enemy -D3 WS, and higher Init, and 68 Rending Attacks, instead of the 36 AP- from the Screamers. That sounds like a much better investment (although the Seekers can't turbo-boost for a 4+).

Elric Greywolf wrote:

 masquerade81 wrote:
That's a very dead Rhino. But now you've spend 225 points on a 35pt Rhino

BUT why not spend those points on other things. 17 Seekers with a Rapturous Standard is 224 (compare to 9 Screamers), WS5 and the enemy -D3 WS, and higher Init, and 68 Rending Attacks, instead of the 36 AP- from the Screamers. That sounds like a much better investment (although the Seekers can't turbo-boost for a 4+).

Seekers aren't Tzeentch and he is clearly going for a fluffy mono-list so it's irrelevant if they are better, so why waste your time writing this? You may as well suggest TH/SS termies.

Also, your argument is a bit silly because Screamers sole purpose isn't hunting Rhinos...

Thanks for the replies :-)

The role of the Screamers was anti-TEQ, I will leave the tank hunting for the DPs if needed and also the Heralds / Horrors as a second resort.

And yes, I am aware there could be better task specific options in the codex but as noted in the topic title = its mono tzeentch.

The idea behind giving the Heralds a Greater Reward was to equip them with Greater Etherblades - better to have and not need than need and not have... and clearly, there would be times to accept / decline challenges.