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If I take a Daemon Prince and make it a Daemon of Tzeentch and give it psyker mastery level 1 must I select the psyker ability from the Tzeentch table in the codex or can I pick from one of the disciplines in Main Rulebook?

The Icon of Tzeentch specifically says that I must choose from the Tzeentch psyker table. But it is not specifically noted as in the description of a Tzeentch Daemon Prince.

Here's what I'm thinking...
DP
Wings
Daemon of Tzeentch
Psyker Mastery Level 3

Pick from Biomancy choose the primaris as one

Nah it seems pretty clear to me:

CSM codex page 33: "If the Daemon Prince is upgraded to a Daemon of Tzeentch, Nurgle or Slaanesh, he must also select at least one power from the Tzeentch, Nurgle or Slaanesh disciplines respectively."

Weirdly enough they phrased it as may in the daemons book

Oh yes, sorry, if you're talking about the Chaos Daemons Codex then you have the option to take powers from the Tzeentch/Change table but if you're talking about the Chaos Space Marines Codex then you must select at least one power from the Tzeentch table.

Not really sure why the difference between the two codices.

Thanks guys. This is a Chaos Space Marine army. I simply didn't read far enough down on the page.

The idea is a DP with three Biomancy abilities, one being the primaris Smite. I'll drop the Tzeentch tag, sad to loose the rerolls. But, having him swooping around doing vector strikes and zapping at ap2 sounds pretty great. I could also add Skalathrax for to reduce swarm numbers. Sounds like a great start to an army.

Thoughts?

Why drop Tzeentch? You'd still have to take a power from whichever you chose from Nurgle or Slaanesh to replace the Tzeentch mark.

Also iron arm and warp speed are the powers you want not smite it is sub par.

I don't get it. If you are mastery level 3 you may roll 3 times on biomancy for example or roll max 2 of them in change and one on biomancy
But you don't have to roll any on Change Discipline...but if you want to, you can't roll more than 2 if you are mastery level 3.

No CSM Prince HAVE to roll at least once on their gods table.

Yes, you would be better going with an allied daemon Tzeentch prince as they are not made to roll for a Tzeentch power like a CSM one.

You could give him the book of names and pair him up with Fateweaver for a pretty nasty tag team, stick a squad of horrors on an objective and go to ground with them. One of best daemon ally set ups for CSM going if not the best.

The idea was to bring a flying DP HQ that would be very difficult to bring down. I considered the Brand of Skalathrax to make it a firebreathing menace but I have a Heldrake to do that. I agree that Iron Arm and Warp Speed are preferred. I'm thinking about the 2+ armor on the Grey Knight Terms my opponents always seem to have. So I'd roll on Tz, If I get Doombolt or Breath of Chaos I wouldn't need Smite. Then I'd grab two Biomancy abilities.


Here's a 1000pt army

Tz DP wings, Level 3 Psyker
Heldrake w/ Baleflamer
5 Thousand Sons
10 Cultists w/ Flamer, 9 Autoguns
10 Cultists w/ Flamer, 9 Autoguns
5 Havocs w/ 4 Lascannon
Putting the Havoc Champ on an Icarus Lascannon in an Aegis defense line

I play against Grey Knights, Tyranids, and rarely Tau

My opponents don't have flyers, the Grey knights sometimes have models with Skyfire. GK Snipers on an Icarus Lascannon are deadly.

Thoughts?

Hmm, to take on 2+ termies i say it would better to take a Khorne daemon prince and give either the axe or mace, give him wings and armor, as i found its better to get into combat with them if you're not using them to take on flyers.

DO NOT get into combat with Grey Knights. Force weapons are NOT your friend. Unless you can be assured of killing all the Termies at I8, then you can get killed by a single failed 5++.
A Tzeentch Prince might have Iron Arm, which would make him viable (in a few games) against Force Weapons. But if you have a Khorne Prince, you're not getting Iron Arm.

Elric Greywolf wrote:
DO NOT get into combat with Grey Knights. Force weapons are NOT your friend. Unless you can be assured of killing all the Termies at I8, then you can get killed by a single failed 5++.

I guessing you had a bad experience, say if he does get a charge in, he does strike at initive 8, he gets 7-11 attacks , if he has a daemon weapon, rerolling due to hatred, he also has a chance to hide in a challenge. if they're bog standard gks sthey still hit on 5s, then wound on 6's.

Cyvash wrote:

Elric Greywolf wrote:
DO NOT get into combat with Grey Knights. Force weapons are NOT your friend. Unless you can be assured of killing all the Termies at I8, then you can get killed by a single failed 5++.

I guessing you had a bad experience, say if he does get a charge in, he does strike at initive 8, he gets 7-11 attacks , if he has a daemon weapon, rerolling due to hatred, he also has a chance to hide in a challenge. if they're bog standard gks sthey still hit on 5s, then wound on 6's.

Well said, I'm surprised more people haven't realized that. Factor in the Invulnerable save and your looking at about 27 force weapon attacks on average to kill a DP. Basically, once you've swung at your superior initiative, its very unlikely whatever they have left will even touch you. Could get unlucky, just very unlikely.

I still don't see why you use Khorne over Tzeentch. With a black mace it make no difference if you're S6 or S7. But rerolling 1s can help with that failed save.

Against 5 Terminators it should be a no contest:

Challenge out one of them. Then

9.5 attacks = 8.4 hits = 7 wounds = 4.69 dead Terminators meaning no one to hit back, Sergeant then takes T test or dies.

Only if you're against Paladins is the Khorne Prince worth it and then only for the axe to cause ID.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also GK Terminators wound on 5s not 6s and hit on 4s if you have the axe.

So your chances of doing a wound are:

1:3 hit 1:9 wound 2:27 get through save. So about 13.5 attacks to do a wound to a DP assuming no one is there to cast hammer hand. If you're Khorne with the axe it takes about 9 attacks. Chuck in hammerhand 1:9 for normal and 1:6 for DP with axe...

Remember also with a Daemon weapon if you roll a 1 you are screwed.

My thought was to take out the Termies without getting into Melee. That was why I wanted the AP shooting attacks. Keep the Tz DP in the air and shoot them with some combination of Doombolt, Breath of Chaos or Smite. The Tz DP attacks powerful threats from the air and the Heldrake takes care of crowd control. Then they can only be hit by snap shots or skyfire.