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Can you use Look out Sir for barrage weapons?

If I have a Tyranid Biovore does he have to have line of sight to target a unit? If he does not and the shot misses, does the scatter double?

Look Out Sir is used when a character is allocated a wound (with some exceptions such as challenges, vindicares, Gets Hot, Perils, and Dangerous Terrain).

For the question about Biovores (and Barrage weapons in general) read the rules for Barrage in the BRB it clearly tells you what happens if the target unit is out of sight.

There will be rulesharks that will claim that even though barrage weapons can hit and wound without line of sight thanks to indirect fire, you can't allocate said wounds. If anyone tries this, do me a favour and hit them in the face with the rulebook please.

...and then offer them your reading glasses...

 PrinceRaven wrote:
There will be rulesharks that will claim that even though barrage weapons can hit and wound without line of sight thanks to indirect fire, you can't allocate said wounds. If anyone tries this, do me a favour and hit them in the face with the rulebook please.

Yeah, using the words in the books as rules totally deserves physical violence. Well put sirrah!

rigeld2 wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
There will be rulesharks that will claim that even though barrage weapons can hit and wound without line of sight thanks to indirect fire, you can't allocate said wounds. If anyone tries this, do me a favour and hit them in the face with the rulebook please.

Yeah, using the words in the books as rules totally deserves physical violence. Well put sirrah!

Sometimes you have to break a few eggs to make an omelot. It's for the greater good :p

pretty sure Blast markers ignore that out of sight rule, i forget where it was but its in one of the 2-3 pages talking about blasts (barrage or otherwise). i'll have to find it when i get home from work and repost it.

Anyway, as stated earlier, the only things that ignore Look Out Sir is challenges, perils of the warp, dangerous terrain fails, or gets hot. Never heard about the Vindicares one.
Even in close combat its allowed, provided not in a challenge.

Blast markers don't ignore Out of Sight.

p33, tells us you can hit (roll To Hit) and wound (roll to Wound) units OOS, but Wound Allocation follows normal allocation rules (ie, can't allocate to models out of sight).

Barrage weapons alter the Wound Allocation procedure to allow wounds on models OOS of the firer, because the allocation is measured from the centre of the blast template.

Even here, if a model is OOS relative to the centre of the blast, a wound from a Barrage round could not be allocated to it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And of course, with a Blast weapon you have to select a target model that is in sight and within max range.

Snapshot wrote:

Even here, if a model is OOS relative to the centre of the blast, a wound from a Barrage round could not be allocated to it.

While you are 100% right, the only problem with trying to play this way is that you never really have any idea how you're supposed to draw line of sight from the center of a blast (especially when vertically blocking line of sight is in the way...in other words, how high does a piece of terrain need to be to block LOS from the center of the blast?). I mean, we're supposed to hold it over the models (no rules about how high), so even if there is a 4" high wall between the center of the blast and a model, since the center hole of the blast is up over the models, surely it can draw LOS to everything, right (unless they're in an enclosed building or something)?

 yakface wrote:

Snapshot wrote:

Even here, if a model is OOS relative to the centre of the blast, a wound from a Barrage round could not be allocated to it.

While you are 100% right, the only problem with trying to play this way is that you never really have any idea how you're supposed to draw line of sight from the center of a blast (especially when vertically blocking line of sight is in the way...in other words, how high does a piece of terrain need to be to block LOS from the center of the blast?). I mean, we're supposed to hold it over the models (no rules about how high), so even if there is a 4" high wall between the center of the blast and a model, since the center hole of the blast is up over the models, surely it can draw LOS to everything, right (unless they're in an enclosed building or something)?

I agree yakface it is not entirely clear, but p100 RHS, last para, might help. When firing into ruins, it explicitly says that the Barrage strikes the highest level under the hole. I take that to mean the floor of the level of the ruin. Similarly, the Blast and Barrage rules make reference to shots "landing", sort of implying the ground (or ruin level, or whatever) is the appropriate reference point.

Snapshot wrote:

I agree yakface it is not entirely clear, but p100 RHS, last para, might help. When firing into ruins, it explicitly says that the Barrage strikes the highest level under the hole. I take that to mean the floor of the level of the ruin. Similarly, the Blast and Barrage rules make reference to shots "landing", sort of implying the ground (or ruin level, or whatever) is the appropriate reference point.

Well, those rules only apply to ruins most importantly, but second, even if you're assuming that the blast is hitting at 'ground level' (even though it has to be over models to cause hits), then how the heck do you draw line of sight from the tabletop? That's a pretty ridiculous concept as well.

I just think its nonsense...I don't think there is a truly 'clear' way to play drawing line of sight from the center of a blast, which again is why I think most people just play that line of sight does not impact barrage casualty removal.

Do you have to have line of sight to the target from the firing unit? i.e. does the Tyranid biovore need LoS to fire?

Yes, the basic rules for shooting tell you that you must have LOS to shoot, page 12 from memory. Barrage has an exception to this requirement.

So no, the biovore does not need LoS to shoot because he has a barrage weapon