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So, even though I'm a Guard player and I should be used to taking handfuls of guardsmen off the table at a time as the later turns degenerate into a bloodthirsty melee, I was wondering if it was possible to run a combat-focused army: specifically investing in Ogryns (I've seen them do alot of damage), with Straken, Priest, etc. Though Ogryns look promising, i've heard alot of negative reports, so are they worth the points?

from what i have heard, for them tobe effective you have to build a list around them... i have never seen this done however.. only tacked onto the side of a list for the lulz

Ogryns are expensive for their damage output.

They are pretty tough, and can soak lots of wounds, but deal very little damage.

With average WS and no AP marines and their equivalents (necrons/sisters etc.) will not be taking much damage off them.

I haven't used them in 6th, although from what I remember they were ok in 5th. They have a similar power and durability to an equal points platoon blob, although without special weapons and such. I can see them being useful for advancing on foot, as it is much easier to claim cover saves for them than a blob. They do have different weaknesses, as they don't fear templates as much but fear ID weapons far more. I see them as a perfectly viable unit, although far from one of the best that we can field. A primaris makes a decent leader for them, as their LD is a bit low. Or you could go for a sort of death star and give them Yarrick.

Ogryn aren't bad, but they're not good either.

The biggest problem with them is that they can't take upgrades, which means that they're not going to take down very many vehicular targets, which is a pretty big problem for a big, expensive unit like ogryn. Also, with only 12" guns, you're basically going to have to be stuck all the way in in order to get any damage out of them, which means that you're going to be spending a few turns doing... nothing.

The other problem is that there are hard counters to them, and they will show up JUST frequently enough to be a serious hassle. Vindicators, Mephiston, force weapons, warscythes, railguns, manticores, and several other weapons can one-shot ogryn. Worse, they struggle against multi-shot high-S weapons as well, like autocannons.

So, if they have deceptively limited killing power and deceptively low durability, why bother? Well, there are a few things that they do.

Firstly, they're still good linebacker units. They ARE still threatening in assault, and if you can force your opponent to back up to stay away from them, then you can use them to push enemy units around in a way that little else in the codex can do.

Secondly, they don't care at all about certain weapons that would devastate regular guardsmen. They will laugh off heavy incinerators and whirlwinds, for example, and kind of don't care about small arms. If you put them in front of a bunch of guardsmen, your opponent may be stuck firing their anti-guardsmen weapons at really sub-optimal targets. Also, unlike vehicles, they don't care about most anti-tank weapons. A single meltagun can kill a Russ, but it won't even bring an ogryn down to half health.

Thirdly, while their killing power isn't all that great, it IS still pretty concentrated. You get a lot of S5 shots out of a pretty small footprint. The only thing in the codex that matches it is the punisher, which doesn't do the above two things. That or reach outside of the codex and look to forgeworld, but depending on your situation, that may not be an option.

Really, it's that ogryn are an elite choice. Elite choices give up the raw killing power of HS, or the speed of FA, or the scoring of Troops, or the synergy of HQ. What they gain is rather subtle strategic benefits. Most people pass over them (like most people pass over most elite choices) for things that have more raw killing power, but that doesn't mean that you can't make a use out of ogryn.

It just means that they're going to be more tricky than you think to justify taking them over something else.

A friend of mine always uses them. For him they do great.

He usualy runs a minimum number squad and puts Nork an straken or a Lord Commisar with them. I have seen them with a primaris psycher from time to time.

He puts them in a chimera and speeds it towards an objective to keep me off it for 2,.. maybe 3 turns. Do not expect them to make a lot of kills against most units. Of course,.. there is always the exception.

I remember these guys for 2 reasons.. Once they formed a chokepoint with a minimum number squad and straken and Nork. They were in combat with 3 Destroyers for 4 turns,.... Yes i was taken of guard

On the other hand, the best i have seen them perform was when they managed to hit a squad of warriors,.. they made so many kills my Warriors were like,.. F*ck this sh*t.... and fled...

It depends realy,.. lot of people are against it, not because they are bad, but for the amount of points something more effective can easily be taken. My advice is simple,.. you want em? run em.. You will soon learn how best to use them..

i used to run close combat guard for fun,

oddly enough, it got better in 6th ed,

penal troopers for troops, pray they roll knife fighters and bam decent HTH schoring unit

ogryns, and rough riders, with straken do ok in CC as well,

wasnt the best tactically, but it was fun to play, and no one really expected guard to be gunning to assault

my ogryns got converted into ork nobs for a reason however...

they just are not that good (not that bad, but there are better uses for those points)

they are fun however

I highly doubt that guard are better in CC than they were before given both the death of power blobs and the fact that 6th hates assault.

Anyways, I did forget to mention something about guard CC in general - it's now better if you go mech. After 30 games of struggling to make it into close combat with anything with my foot list, I've either gotten, or had the serious opportunity if I'd wished, to get into close combat at least once per game with my mech list.

In a chimera, the guys are actually durable enough to make it somewhere without just getting horribly gunned down first. In a chimera, they can move 18" in a turn, which means that they can actually make it to the hot zone in a timely fashion.

Of course, bringing it back to ogryn, not only could they take advantage of this, but, more hilariously, you can fit 5 ogryn in a chimera with their necessary lord commissar. Guess how many fire ports a chimera has?

If you look at ally solutions I had some success with Ogyrn squads lead by Azarel. The 4++ save he confers makes them extremely durable. Very good to ram straight down your opponents throat let them soak crazy amounts of fire.

Glocknall wrote:
If you look at ally solutions I had some success with Ogyrn squads lead by Azarel. The 4++ save he confers makes them extremely durable. Very good to ram straight down your opponents throat let them soak crazy amounts of fire.

However, durability isn't really their problem. They're already pretty durable, and paying the equivalent of 7 ogryns for a 4++ might be pointless.
Making them faster is what needs to be done to fix their main problem.