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I have been thinking of running this list:

Sammael
Ravenwing Command Squad - banner of devastation & apothecary
Librarian - bike & auspex

5 x Ravenwing Bikers w/ Attack Bike - 2 x plasma guns - Attack Bike w/ multi melta
5 x Ravenwing Bikers w/ Attack Bike - 2 x plasma guns - Attack Bike w/ multi melta
5 x Ravenwing Bikers w/ Attack Bike - 2 x plasma guns - Attack Bike w/ multi melta
5 x Ravenwing Bikers w/ Attack Bike - 2 x meltaguns - Attack Bike w/ multi melta
5 x Ravenwing Bikers w/ Attack Bike - 2 x meltaguns - Attack Bike w/ multi melta
5 x Ravenwing Bikers w/ Attack Bike - 2 x meltaguns - Attack Bike w/ multi melta

5 x Ravenwing Black Knights - grenade launcher

Total: 1,999

This list has a total of 46 bike models, that's a lot of bikes!

Sammy joins the Command Squad as does the Libby. I haven't decided on powers yet for the Libby, I'll take a look around.

The Command Squad goes in the centre and all units go around it, though Attack Bikes will line up the front with Black Knights behind.

If I get first turn I will scout up and unleash dakka death. Due to the size of my force I'll try and deploy refused flank if I go second and centre if I go first. For extra safety the Knights and Command Squad will deploy in terrain if possible, both units have skilled rider so ignore dangerous terrain tests.

Attack Bikes will hunt armour while Black Knights go for monstrous creatures - the grenade launcher can drop the toughness down so plasma wounds on a 2+ instead of the normal 3+. Attack Bikes will support them if no armour is available.

Meltas and plasma will tag team, melta opens up transport vehicles while plasma dakkas, both units will charge and beat face and hopefully stay locked in combat so in the opponent's turn cannot be shot at and then do hit and run.

Flyers are an issue for this list, but hopefully weight of fire can get in flyers rear arcs or dakka them down - there is a lot of melta (12 melta weapons) and plasma (20 shots) with some of the plasma being twin-linked. Keep in mind I can use the Libbies auspex on a flyer to -1 the jink save. Hopefully I can have my units in close combat and do hit and run, it's not a great tactic, but they do have 33% chance of failure, but it stops them being shot at.

Thoughts?

I would probably do all plasma on bikes since you have so many meltas with the multimelta already and against some armies you are going to be playing keep away so the 24 inch ap2 would I think be better

Plasma on regular bikes is a bit silly IMHO.
42 points is the same cost as a Black Knight, and they are so much better it is almost laughable.

Have you thought about tossing in a few flamers on those squads instead, or dropping a few regular bikes with plasma guns and adding in some more Black Knights?

A few too many Attack Bikes, 3 is more than enough to hunt armour with.

Black Knights make sense in a more balanced list, they provide the hardcore close combat support, but plasma bikers have more range (24") and more risk, and they can add their bolters to the Salvo fire if necessary.

The problem here is protecting the RCS; A techmarine on bike should do wonders.

The amount of bolter death this army puts out is obscene though.

Personally, I would drop all of the Special Weapons on the RAS plus 2 Attack Bikes. This would give you 260pts to buy another 5 x Ravenwing Black Knights and trust me this will do more damage and have more survivability then those upgrades and 2 attack bikes.

the librarian has bike are is in foot?

Why no power maul on the black knight sergeant? Causing ID at initiative seems too good to pass up. Also Id recommend going with 6-8 bikers and take two grenade launchers.

I would also take a launcher on the command squad and as others have suggested a Techmarine to give you a 2+ save soak for AP3 flamers that hurt you bad.

But other than looks really good getting great use from the banner. My concern is how many units actually get the benefit in game.

Yeh less attack bikes, other than that Ravenwing is Ravenwing

G00fySmiley wrote:I would probably do all plasma on bikes since you have so many meltas with the multimelta already and against some armies you are going to be playing keep away so the 24 inch ap2 would I think be better

I haven't got enough points to switch anything about. I think I could probably get away with two melta biker units if I am honest.

nolzur wrote:Plasma on regular bikes is a bit silly IMHO.
42 points is the same cost as a Black Knight, and they are so much better it is almost laughable.

Have you thought about tossing in a few flamers on those squads instead, or dropping a few regular bikes with plasma guns and adding in some more Black Knights?

Don't need flamers when I have a billion bolter shots .

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:A few too many Attack Bikes, 3 is more than enough to hunt armour with.

Black Knights make sense in a more balanced list, they provide the hardcore close combat support, but plasma bikers have more range (24") and more risk, and they can add their bolters to the Salvo fire if necessary.

The problem here is protecting the RCS; A techmarine on bike should do wonders.

The amount of bolter death this army puts out is obscene though.

Three Attack Bikes won't last long enough. I may consider four though and keep my existing melta setup on the troop units. This would give me 110 points to play with.

I have tried a Techmarine before and costs a lot of points for a single wound model, why can't be two wounds like Master of the Forge?

Malik_Raynor wrote:Personally, I would drop all of the Special Weapons on the RAS plus 2 Attack Bikes. This would give you 260pts to buy another 5 x Ravenwing Black Knights and trust me this will do more damage and have more survivability then those upgrades and 2 attack bikes.

Ditching the special weapons isn't an option. Riding round just with bolters isn't really that threatening. The Black Knights are just as survivable as normal bikers when they do not turbo boost.

Dreal wrote:the librarian has bike are is in foot?

The Libby has a bike as listed

FlingitNow wrote:Why no power maul on the black knight sergeant? Causing ID at initiative seems too good to pass up. Also Id recommend going with 6-8 bikers and take two grenade launchers.

I would also take a launcher on the command squad and as others have suggested a Techmarine to give you a 2+ save soak for AP3 flamers that hurt you bad.

But other than looks really good getting great use from the banner. My concern is how many units actually get the benefit in game.

Not really given a power maul any thoughts, though it is only AP4. Something to consider. If I can find the points I'll boost them up to 6 bikers. I think I can drop two Attack Bikes if I am honest.

I might do that on the Command Squad, would certainly help with I.D multi wound T4 models. I am not sold on the Techmarine as only a single wound, it's a lot of points for a single wound model. I did test the Techmarine and he took a lot of wounds before dying, though I did think he had two wounds.

All of them benefit if positioned in an extremely tight formation - they will hate templates and blasts.

Power maul is your friend against Orks just takes the Nob out of the equation. With 4 attacks even a 3+ save guy would think twice about accepting a challenge particularly if you've cast prescience...

Personally Id drop all the plasma for melt in the RAS squads as you have that banner. As you're wasting the banner when you shoot plasma and are wasting the plasma when shooting the bolters at least with melta you're looking at entirely different targets to the bolters unlike plasma where there's huge overlap.

The main problem with shooty Ravenwing armies I find if is that if you lose the Standard early, your firepower suffers immensely.

I opt for a more balanced list with close combat elements (Black Knights) with a SoD firebase, this way you have the option to CC shooty/gunline armies, shoot CC armies, or a combination of both.

I find vanilla RW bikers a little too weak for their points, so all my plasma is run on the BKs and I either leave them naked or with a single meltagun.

Once you get into charge range, i.e. Turn 2, with hit and run you deny a shooting phase and rapid fire plasma is absurdly strong.

FlingitNow wrote:Power maul is your friend against Orks just takes the Nob out of the equation. With 4 attacks even a 3+ save guy would think twice about accepting a challenge particularly if you've cast prescience...

Personally Id drop all the plasma for melt in the RAS squads as you have that banner. As you're wasting the banner when you shoot plasma and are wasting the plasma when shooting the bolters at least with melta you're looking at entirely different targets to the bolters unlike plasma where there's huge overlap.

I can see the maul being handy for smacking vehicles on the rear armour and also tackling xenos, but that's about it. I don't think it is worth paying 12 points for though.

I have done some tweaking to squeeze in another Black Knight squad and now got melta on pretty much every unit.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:The main problem with shooty Ravenwing armies I find if is that if you lose the Standard early, your firepower suffers immensely.

I opt for a more balanced list with close combat elements (Black Knights) with a SoD firebase, this way you have the option to CC shooty/gunline armies, shoot CC armies, or a combination of both.

I find vanilla RW bikers a little too weak for their points, so all my plasma is run on the BKs and I either leave them naked or with a single meltagun.

Once you get into charge range, i.e. Turn 2, with hit and run you deny a shooting phase and rapid fire plasma is absurdly strong.

That is an issue with the dakka banner, but I cannot do a fat lot to avoid it. I guess gak happens.


I have revamped the list and this is what I have come up with:

Sammael
Ravenwing Command Squad - grenade launcher, standard of devastation & apothecary
Librarian - bike & mastery level 2 psyker

5 x Ravenwing Attack Squad - 2 x meltaguns - Attack Bike w/ multi melta
5 x Ravenwing Attack Squad - 2 x meltaguns - Attack Bike w/ multi melta
5 x Ravenwing Attack Squad - 2 x meltaguns
5 x Ravenwing Attack Squad - 2 x meltaguns
5 x Ravenwing Attack Squad - 2 x meltaguns
5 x Ravenwing Attack Squad - 2 x plasma guns

5 x Ravenwing Black Knights - grenade launcher
5 x Ravenwing Black Knights - grenade launcher

The Libby will use telepathy powers and hopefully can cast invisbility - this should help the RCS survive a lot more.

I have ditched some Attack Bikes, though really I would like three. I have included a second Black Knight unit, which I think is going to be well worth it. I do think the list is too melta heavy, and in order to get another Attack Bike in there I might switch some meltas to flamers or something.

I can see the maul being handy for smacking vehicles on the rear armour and also tackling xenos, but that's about it. I don't think it is worth paying 12 points for though. 

I have to disagree. They are excellent Horde control the only problem Hordes cause them is that PK Nob who you completely take out. Also good against vehicles and any TEQ or MEQ should be overkilled by the plasma and weight of attacks from the squad. Even T4 independant characters won't want to accept a challenge if they've a 3+ armour (I'm looking at you chaos) with prescience you should hit 3 times wound 3 times which equals 1 dead character. Great against many MEQ armies!

No, there is never any point in taking the Maul when the 12 point should go somewhere else. The only upgrade BKs need is melta bombs,, but its a last ditch thing if you need to melta bomb something, something has gone terribly wrong.

I think this list could be pretty competative/fun. I agree it seems like a ton of melta but at the end of the day you can take melta plasma or flamer, so you are kinda limited. Is you lv 2 on your Libby really needed? I mean your banner plus prescience is pretty saucey as is. You could take the power field generator for a 4+ invulnerable save. Or even work in Darkshroud with a couple squads of typhoon speeders. I like the list a lot but its a pretty new codex so it is just gonna need some play test.

The dakka banner is overrated. Templates willl murder this list. You need at least one darkshroud, your saves are not good enough without it. I just cannot seem to get all of my models with LOS, range and within 6" of the banner. Perhaps others are better at placing units than me. Either way any template weapons will cause this list serious problems.

Plasma is really good when you factor in the effect of the Granade launchers. It's funny to watch plasma shots instant death a paladin.

As far as positioning the banner, remember it's you it to unit so you just need one model from the command squad to be within 6 inches. Deploy the comand squad with the bikes at max coherence and facing side ways. That gives you a really long area to measure the 6" from. The othe trick is to remember you only have to be within 6" when the unit shoots. Position the comand squad for 1/2 your army, fire and then turbo boost the comand squad to the other half of your army. It's not too hard with some practice.

I love playing bike lists they are so much fun (i play vannila bikes). Ravenwing with the Dakka banner would be a GT winnig top list if not for the helldrake and it probably still would be if not for the FAQ giving 360 degree firing arc. As it stands you can't win a game when your opponent can put 3 units on the table that will delete one of you units every turn.

Pony_law wrote:
As far as positioning the banner, remember it's you it to unit so you just need one model from the command squad to be within 6 inches. Deploy the comand squad with the bikes at max coherence and facing side ways. That gives you a really long area to measure the 6" from.

Not quite accurate. You need to have one guy from each unit within 6" of the banner bearer, not within 6" of anybody in the command squad.

Pony_law wrote:
Plasma is really good when you factor in the effect of the Granade launchers. It's funny to watch plasma shots instant death a paladin.

As far as positioning the banner, remember it's you it to unit so you just need one model from the command squad to be within 6 inches. Deploy the comand squad with the bikes at max coherence and facing side ways. That gives you a really long area to measure the 6" from. The othe trick is to remember you only have to be within 6" when the unit shoots. Position the comand squad for 1/2 your army, fire and then turbo boost the comand squad to the other half of your army. It's not too hard with some practice.

I love playing bike lists they are so much fun (i play vannila bikes). Ravenwing with the Dakka banner would be a GT winnig top list if not for the helldrake and it probably still would be if not for the FAQ giving 360 degree firing arc. As it stands you can't win a game when your opponent can put 3 units on the table that will delete one of you units every turn.

Nobody runs 3 Helldrake lists and wins tournaments.

Ravenwing have easy solutions to flyers: they're called Mortis Contemptors.

NeoMercury wrote:I think this list could be pretty competative/fun. I agree it seems like a ton of melta but at the end of the day you can take melta plasma or flamer, so you are kinda limited. Is you lv 2 on your Libby really needed? I mean your banner plus prescience is pretty saucey as is. You could take the power field generator for a 4+ invulnerable save. Or even work in Darkshroud with a couple squads of typhoon speeders. I like the list a lot but its a pretty new codex so it is just gonna need some play test.

I am not going to take level 2 on the Libby as I think it is pretty damn expensive. The plan was to hope to get invisibility on the telepathy table.

Prescience isn't needed when majority of my guns are twin-linked . Though some of the other powers are damn handy.

I tried the power field generator, it works ok. I think I'll be taking that.

Darkshroud wouldn't work, it would be the only armour value in the list and attract all the anti tank fire.

jamin484 wrote:The dakka banner is overrated. Templates willl murder this list. You need at least one darkshroud, your saves are not good enough without it. I just cannot seem to get all of my models with LOS, range and within 6" of the banner. Perhaps others are better at placing units than me. Either way any template weapons will cause this list serious problems.

Well templates won't wreck this list. There's only two templates which the Ravenwing fear and that's the Heldrake and the Redeemer; the Redeemer won't come close to me because of all the melta and the Heldrake is just a Heldrake. If you're talking about blast templates, then yes they would be a pain, but I can easily spread models out to max coherency as only one model from each unit needs to be in range of the dakka banner.

While you make a good point about templates, it's a bad idea to suggest a Darkshroud which doesn't help me at all against something you pointed out which would be a problem for this list. And you seriously think 3+ save isn't good enough?

Pony_law wrote:Plasma is really good when you factor in the effect of the Granade launchers. It's funny to watch plasma shots instant death a paladin.

As far as positioning the banner, remember it's you it to unit so you just need one model from the command squad to be within 6 inches. Deploy the comand squad with the bikes at max coherence and facing side ways. That gives you a really long area to measure the 6" from. The othe trick is to remember you only have to be within 6" when the unit shoots. Position the comand squad for 1/2 your army, fire and then turbo boost the comand squad to the other half of your army. It's not too hard with some practice.

I love playing bike lists they are so much fun (i play vannila bikes). Ravenwing with the Dakka banner would be a GT winnig top list if not for the helldrake and it probably still would be if not for the FAQ giving 360 degree firing arc. As it stands you can't win a game when your opponent can put 3 units on the table that will delete one of you units every turn.

I used the grenade launchers recently and they are cool, though I am disappointed to find out they are not twin-linked :(.

Heldrakes are pretty bad ass, but honestly, who uses three? Three Heldrakes is a big investment.

I use 3 Helldrakes though that was at 1250 points for a silly list.

At 2k Id have thought 3 Drakes are pretty common.

Darkshroud should have a 2+ cover and all it has to absorb is enough firepower to kill 2 Blackknights should easily do that every game.

You need to take Level 2 to use Invisibility, since it's Warp Charge Two.

Rolling 2D6 to get Invis is twice as likely as rolling 1d6. I have had invis in like 90% of the games i've played, and it's game-breaking to the point where
I sometimes reroll just for the sake of my opponent's fun.

Ordnance blast templates also mess RW up since they have to cluster to get the Salvo Banner effect.

Darkshrouds have a 2+ cover, any fire that comes their way is welcome. It doesn't really do anything though when unmolested.

 mercer wrote:

NeoMercury wrote:I think this list could be pretty competative/fun. I agree it seems like a ton of melta but at the end of the day you can take melta plasma or flamer, so you are kinda limited. Is you lv 2 on your Libby really needed? I mean your banner plus prescience is pretty saucey as is. You could take the power field generator for a 4+ invulnerable save. Or even work in Darkshroud with a couple squads of typhoon speeders. I like the list a lot but its a pretty new codex so it is just gonna need some play test.

I am not going to take level 2 on the Libby as I think it is pretty damn expensive. The plan was to hope to get invisibility on the telepathy table.

Prescience isn't needed when majority of my guns are twin-linked . Though some of the other powers are damn handy.

I tried the power field generator, it works ok. I think I'll be taking that.

Darkshroud wouldn't work, it would be the only armour value in the list and attract all the anti tank fire.

jamin484 wrote:The dakka banner is overrated. Templates willl murder this list. You need at least one darkshroud, your saves are not good enough without it. I just cannot seem to get all of my models with LOS, range and within 6" of the banner. Perhaps others are better at placing units than me. Either way any template weapons will cause this list serious problems.

Well templates won't wreck this list. There's only two templates which the Ravenwing fear and that's the Heldrake and the Redeemer; the Redeemer won't come close to me because of all the melta and the Heldrake is just a Heldrake. If you're talking about blast templates, then yes they would be a pain, but I can easily spread models out to max coherency as only one model from each unit needs to be in range of the dakka banner.

While you make a good point about templates, it's a bad idea to suggest a Darkshroud which doesn't help me at all against something you pointed out which would be a problem for this list. And you seriously think 3+ save isn't good enough?

Pony_law wrote:Plasma is really good when you factor in the effect of the Granade launchers. It's funny to watch plasma shots instant death a paladin.

As far as positioning the banner, remember it's you it to unit so you just need one model from the command squad to be within 6 inches. Deploy the comand squad with the bikes at max coherence and facing side ways. That gives you a really long area to measure the 6" from. The othe trick is to remember you only have to be within 6" when the unit shoots. Position the comand squad for 1/2 your army, fire and then turbo boost the comand squad to the other half of your army. It's not too hard with some practice.

I love playing bike lists they are so much fun (i play vannila bikes). Ravenwing with the Dakka banner would be a GT winnig top list if not for the helldrake and it probably still would be if not for the FAQ giving 360 degree firing arc. As it stands you can't win a game when your opponent can put 3 units on the table that will delete one of you units every turn.

I used the grenade launchers recently and they are cool, though I am disappointed to find out they are not twin-linked :(.

Heldrakes are pretty bad ass, but honestly, who uses three? Three Heldrakes is a big investment.

I've only played 2 games using the dakka banner so perhaps I am not giving it a fair run. However, in my experience there are a lot of templates that dakka lists fear. Defilers, Blastmasters, reaper exarch, night hunter, basilisk, leman russ etc, anything with an AP3 large blast and a lot more besides (ignore cover or even just high strength big blasts will kill a lot of bikes). The trouble is to be witin 24" of at least 2 suitable targets, 6" of the flag bearer and have LOS you need to bunch up. Even if a big blast misses it still hits. Most AP3 big blasts wound on 2's, and then your bikes only get a 5+ save. You have a lot of melta which is great but you are still relying on an element of luck and hoping that your opponent doesn't bubble wrap his big templates (think guard with artillery). Your opponent doesn't need to kill your dakka banner if he kills all of your other bikes! Having said that this is probably the strongest dakka banner list I've seen, its certainly better than the one I used. All the best.

Asmodai Asmodean wrote:You need to take Level 2 to use Invisibility, since it's Warp Charge Two.

Rolling 2D6 to get Invis is twice as likely as rolling 1d6. I have had invis in like 90% of the games i've played, and it's game-breaking to the point where
I sometimes reroll just for the sake of my opponent's fun.

Ordnance blast templates also mess RW up since they have to cluster to get the Salvo Banner effect.

Darkshrouds have a 2+ cover, any fire that comes their way is welcome. It doesn't really do anything though when unmolested.

Hence why I took mastery level 2 .

Yup, blast templates are a bane for this list, but as I mentioned, I'd spread out.

And knowing what the Darkshroud does it will go down first chance anyone gets with their anti tank fire power.

jamin484 wrote:
I've only played 2 games using the dakka banner so perhaps I am not giving it a fair run. However, in my experience there are a lot of templates that dakka lists fear. Defilers, Blastmasters, reaper exarch, night hunter, basilisk, leman russ etc, anything with an AP3 large blast and a lot more besides (ignore cover or even just high strength big blasts will kill a lot of bikes). The trouble is to be witin 24" of at least 2 suitable targets, 6" of the flag bearer and have LOS you need to bunch up. Even if a big blast misses it still hits. Most AP3 big blasts wound on 2's, and then your bikes only get a 5+ save. You have a lot of melta which is great but you are still relying on an element of luck and hoping that your opponent doesn't bubble wrap his big templates (think guard with artillery). Your opponent doesn't need to kill your dakka banner if he kills all of your other bikes! Having said that this is probably the strongest dakka banner list I've seen, its certainly better than the one I used. All the best.

Firstly you get jink saves, while not great is better than a kick in the balls. Also unit placement around terrain will help. Out of those units you mentioned Defilers and the Reaper are not common and only found in a single army. I've not idea what a Night Hunter is. Bassie and Leman Russ are a pain, but with speed I can get close. Also I said already I would space them out max coherency.

Also you need to be within 6" of the Darkshroud, which is the same as the dakkabanner and if stuff denies cover then same situation as before.

No trouble to be within 24" of something when you start 12" from the table edge and move 12" in a single turn. Having majority of the units within 6" of the banner bearer isn't an issue.

While what you say is true and is an issue for this list, there's nothing I can do about it anyway and I think is a moot point. All I can do is use my speed to move closer - do not forget turbo boost this will leave the opponent one turn to shoot at me before I am returning fire. And also spread my units out more effectively and use terrain better.