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My friend runs a Daemons list that revolves entirely around Epidimus, whom he sticks inside of a block of Plague Bearers. I know if I just pop him, the rest of the army buckles.
When I shoot into the unit, how can I allocate shots into Epidimus? Are shots randomized? If so, how, and where would I find this in the rulebook?
How many wounds does Epidimus have? Does he use the wound profile of his palanquin, or does it use the wound profile for his entry?
If I use death magic (caress, fate, spirit), am I wounding Epidimus against his natural wounds, or against the wounds of the palanquin? Where would I find this in the rulebook?
If I use a spell like Amber Spear, which fires as a bolt thrower, can I select where in the unit I am aiming it (i.e. directly into Epidimus) or do I merely target the unit and then it goes into vanilla models?
Does Epidimus, being on a 50m base, get any form of look out sir?

1. If you shoot him with say, bowfire, hits go on the unit same as shooting anything else until he is down to less than 5 rank and file models. About the only thing you can attempt to target him with is a template or cannon as I believe he is not infantry and therefore does not get a 'look out sir' roll.

2. He uses the profile for the Palanquin as per the BRB rules for riding stuff.

3. I think you use the highest value on the model, see the stuff on characteristics checks and multi-profile models or again check the stuff on cav, war beasts, monstrous cav, ridden creatures, etc.

4. No. It is distributed as shooting i.e. see point 1 and it hits the unit.

5. I don't believe he does as he is not the same unit type as the plaguebearers - I don't have my book to hand but I don't believe he's infantry so does not get a 'look out sir'.

I thought Bolt Thrower's could hit specific models, like cannonballs. I didn't think the wounds were distributed as per shooting.


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Moreover, what if the character's base occupies two ranks? I know the rulebook's notion of being "Unable to pick out the character" but in this instance the character is readily identifiable and not capable of being protected by a look-out sir

Bolt throwers are normal shooting. Cannon and any other template style weapon directly target models - and no LOS! while riding a palanquin

So a cannon into the PB unit wil cause Epi issues.

LOS! ONLY applies to template & cannon (imagine it as a very thing template) and NOT NORMAL SHOOTING. Normal shooting cannot target individual models, it is only allocated evenly then randomised when tehre are less than 5 normal RnF models left

For LOS, does the base size need to be the sake, or only the unit type? I believe he is still counted as infantry while on a palanquin.

LOS requires identical unit type; base size means nothing.

The palaquin is a MB now, so he would be MC.

He doesn't get a LoS from template weapons like cannons and stone throwers and even amber spear. Because he's not Infantry as Davall said. Only if you put him with Skullcrushers or the plaguefly things would he get a LoS. Or if he's solo and within 6" he gets a 4+ LoS, but then you can just shoot him with arrows or attack him. You use the highest T and W when counting MC, so he's pretty tough for a Hero.

All of your questions can be answered by reading the Shooting, Monstrous Cavalry, and Bolt Thrower sections of the BRB.

Niteware wrote:
For LOS, does the base size need to be the sake, or only the unit type? I believe he is still counted as infantry while on a palanquin.

No, Epidemius is never counted as Infantry.

Epidemius is not a Herald (Infantry) mounted on a Monstrous Beast. He is a Special Character that has its own rules including the unit type: Monstrous Cavalry. As such, all rules for Monstrous Cavalry apply. You use the Move value of the mount. You use the higher value for Toughness and Wounds for the model as a whole. Each separate portion of the profile makes its own attacks with its own Strength and Initiative value. He functions just like a Bloodcrusher, Mournfang Cavarlry, or Demigryph Knight model would.

As Monstrous Cavalry, Epidemius can make no Look Out Sir roll while in a unit of Infantry because the unit types do not match. Even if their base sizes were the same, if the unit type doesn't match, there is no Look Out Sir available.


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DukeRustfield wrote:
He doesn't get a LoS from template weapons like cannons and stone throwers and even amber spear. Because he's not Infantry as Davall said. Only if you put him with Skullcrushers or the plaguefly things would he get a LoS. Or if he's solo and within 6" he gets a 4+ LoS, but then you can just shoot him with arrows or attack him. You use the highest T and W when counting MC, so he's pretty tough for a Hero.

Epidemius cannot join either Bloodcrushers or Plague Flies. Bloodcrushers are Daemons of Khorne, while Epidemius is a Daemon of Nurgle; characters cannot joint units who are a Daemon of a different god.

Epidemius also cannot join Plague Flies because Plague Flies are Fliers. Characters may not join a unit of Flers.

The best Epidemius could hope to do to get a Look Out Sir roll would be to stay close enough to either a Bloodcrusher or Plague Fly unit to get the reduced 4+ Look Out Sir roll provided to a lone character that is close to a unit of like type.

Anyone with a rule book in front of them please feel free to correct me if my memory has failed.

I think you are right, but I think he can join Beasts? Then he would get LoS.

Nope. Beasts of Nurgle are not Monstrous Cavalry.

Saldiven wrote:
Epidemius cannot join either Bloodcrushers or Plague Flies. Bloodcrushers are Daemons of Khorne, while Epidemius is a Daemon of Nurgle; characters cannot joint units who are a Daemon of a different god.

Epidemius also cannot join Plague Flies because Plague Flies are Fliers. Characters may not join a unit of Flers.

You're right, he can't join bloodcrushers. Last book it was only heralds couldn't join different gods. This book, characters can only join units ENTIRELY (emphasis added) composed of the same god. The BRB says can't join a unit of fliers either. I thought they could if they didn't fly, but maybe I'm wrong. So the best he can do is hang out and get the 4+ save by being nearish them. But he can do that with bloodcrushers too. Or any MC.

They made it a lot harder to protect him, that's for sure.

A player around here was talking about using a Portalglyph to hide Epidemius for as long as possible to protect him. The only real problem with this is when you go up against an army that has a solid answer for a GD or DP. If you go up against an Empire player with a couple of cannons who kills your GD first turn, then Epidemius pops out at some point 6-36 inches away from where you wanted it, most likely in a spot vulnerable to turn 2 cannon fire, for example.

Holy crap your friend is a JEEEYUS. I frankly never looked at those items very closely. That or the castle thing. The castle because it seemed like a blatant attempt to sell models.

But if you read the wording on the portalglyph, you CAN enter play in subsequent remaining moves turns. Doesn't say you have to. You never have to bring Epidmius onto the board whether the owner is killed or not. It probably never occurred to the writer why anyone would want to leave units unused. Epidimius' rules only state he has to be alive. Technically he is. He's just sitting in a necklace or whatever picking his nose.

You can also just keep plague drones or skullcrushers within 3" and he gets a 4 up look out sir. Even if he's in another unit. Also works with heralds and other infantry units of different gods. A tzeentch herald can get a 4 up when within 3" of bloodletters.

A 4+ save vs. templates isn't nearly as good as a 0+ save vs. anything whatsoever, however.