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Okay this is my third rendition of the subject, but I would like the community's feedback on what should be changed - if any, or additions, points costs, stats, etc. So please list what your opinions are.

I'll start with My personal ideas:

1. I think they should have power packs to charge their hot shots for +1 S.
2. This is not needed but I feel they should also have +1 WS just because they should be able to beat up a veteran and normal guardsmen.
3. Updated Special operations as I feel like the only one I use is the re-roll for deepstrike.

Feel free to comment on my ideas or give proper points changes you feel would work for them if you agree.

 Kasrkin52 wrote:

3. Updated Special operations as I feel like the only one I use is the re-roll for deepstrike.

This is the only valid suggestion presented and you listed the justified reasons.

That ability is just so much greater than the other two.

Although, I wouldn't really care about the WS change either. The gun strength one: no way. They're already absolutely fantastic.

Oh yeah, definitely updated special missions. I'd say this one should be

Extermination: they can be like death-marks of crons, select an enemy unit for termination, the squad will gain rerolls to hit against that unit/squad.
" -- No one gets the job done like the glory boys."

Fire for effect: STs get to infiltrate and calling an airstrike once per turn. Medium Strength Barrages. Good for softening up objective holders

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Kasrkin52 wrote:

3. Updated Special operations as I feel like the only one I use is the re-roll for deepstrike.

This is the only valid suggestion presented and you listed the justified reasons.

That ability is just so much greater than the other two.

Although, I wouldn't really care about the WS change either. The gun strength one: no way. They're already absolutely fantastic.

2 for 3 not bad lol. To justify the +1 S is for the fact that the fluff is based on it. I dont have the codex infront of me right now but Im sure it states a more powerful (hence the strength) and penetrating shot (the AP 3). Also, I believe in second edition they had this rule. To be honest, the stormies are a disruption unit that deliver needed anti tank right now in my experiences. I have tried using them as anti infantry, and they are only good with cutting down GEQs as MEQs need a 5 to take down...and most are in cover anyways. I just feel they should be more of a threat to heavier infantry IMHO

Just had an idea...what if one of the special operations was for the power pack idea that I suggested? at least this way they wont always have it and based on the mission/ army you face you can choose it?.....or with the way randomness is happening with these 6th edition codexes it might go that way...which is less decisive.

Thanks for the input though!

 Kasrkin52 wrote:
To justify the +1 S is for the fact that the fluff is based on it. I dont have the codex infront of me right now but Im sure it states a more powerful (hence the strength) and penetrating shot (the AP 3). Also, I believe in second edition they had this rule.

It is more powerful. Hot shot lasguns are 3 times as likely to kill a Marine. That's more powerful.

Also, we don't get to use 2nd edition anything 'round here for justification.

WS4 is exceptionaly fun when the other player forgets your little dudes have it.

Now, its not really good for the Stormies, as they'll rarely live to use it.

And you need 10 stormies with 2 plasma guns to kill around 7 MEQ, IIRC, would be nice if someone did the math properly.

 Bobthehero wrote:

And you need 10 stormies with 2 plasma guns to kill around 7 MEQ, IIRC, would be nice if someone did the math properly.

It's about 6 and a half marines. You're on the side of awesome though right, that's a pretty freaking fantastic amount of killing power.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:

And you need 10 stormies with 2 plasma guns to kill around 7 MEQ, IIRC, would be nice if someone did the math properly.

It's about 6 and a half marines. You're on the side of awesome though right, that's a pretty freaking fantastic amount of killing power.

Really? Is that taking any kind of cover into account? And is the whole unit in 9" here, and intact? While it is some killing power, I'd hardly call it fantastic considering the cost of that unit, and how easy it is to kill

 Kasrkin52 wrote:

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Kasrkin52 wrote:

3. Updated Special operations as I feel like the only one I use is the re-roll for deepstrike.

This is the only valid suggestion presented and you listed the justified reasons.

That ability is just so much greater than the other two.

Although, I wouldn't really care about the WS change either. The gun strength one: no way. They're already absolutely fantastic.

2 for 3 not bad lol. To justify the +1 S is for the fact that the fluff is based on it. I dont have the codex infront of me right now but Im sure it states a more powerful (hence the strength) and penetrating shot (the AP 3). Also, I believe in second edition they had this rule. To be honest, the stormies are a disruption unit that deliver needed anti tank right now in my experiences. I have tried using them as anti infantry, and they are only good with cutting down GEQs as MEQs need a 5 to take down...and most are in cover anyways. I just feel they should be more of a threat to heavier infantry IMHO

Just had an idea...what if one of the special operations was for the power pack idea that I suggested? at least this way they wont always have it and based on the mission/ army you face you can choose it?.....or with the way randomness is happening with these 6th edition codexes it might go that way...which is less decisive.

Thanks for the input though!

Problem is that +1S makes them better than sternguard offensively with their AP 3 bolter shells. That and they would probably be OP being able to kill almost anything without a 2+ save in a shooting phase or two.
10 storm troopers at close range (sergeant does in fact get a HSLG)
20 shots
13 hits or so
7 wounds or so
no or 2-3 saves (assumes 5+ cover save)

That is half a marine squad dead (with a cover save) in a single shooting phase, not including any special weapons which would probably allow us to tack on another kill or two depending on weapons.

Now, I wouldn't mind some sort of option that allows them to super charge them or something for a turn, maybe something like a special operations.
Incinerate, the storm troopers have modified their weapons so they can unleash their entire payload in a few extremely powerful shots. Becomes str 5 AP 2 assault 1 or something (maybe increase range to 24" to represent the increased power) and suffers from gets hot. More useful against high toughness enemies and terminators. In return they lose all other special operations so they can't deepstrike in and murder those terminators, but they can scare them off an objective.

Okay but sternguard have rounds that make them effective against different targets/situations. Based on what you said what would you say about thousand sons?

Also, like I mentioned originally, the points cost could go up depending on changes. Feel free to make any in addition to what you think stormies need to be better or more unique.

What do you guys think about a point reduction for what they are presently?

 motyak wrote:

Really? Is that taking any kind of cover into account? And is the whole unit in 9" here, and intact? While it is some killing power, I'd hardly call it fantastic considering the cost of that unit, and how easy it is to kill

Well, they're Stormtroopers, so yes within 9" at full strength and likely without cover. Are you unfamiliar with how Stormtroopers deploy?

Even so, the cost of that unit is in the same ballpark to a 10 man Marine squad. 10 Marines do not kill 6 and a half Marines. When the Stormtroopers kill 6 of those 10 Marines, the remaining 4 do not kill the Stormtroopers either.

Seriously, Stormtroopers are probably the most bewilderingly underrated unit in all of 40k.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 motyak wrote:

Really? Is that taking any kind of cover into account? And is the whole unit in 9" here, and intact? While it is some killing power, I'd hardly call it fantastic considering the cost of that unit, and how easy it is to kill

Well, they're Stormtroopers, so yes within 9" at full strength and likely without cover. Are you unfamiliar with how Stormtroopers deploy?

Even so, the cost of that unit is in the same ballpark to a 10 man Marine squad. 10 Marines do not kill 6 and a half Marines. When the Stormtroopers kill 6 of those 10 Marines, the remaining 4 do not kill the Stormtroopers either.

Seriously, Stormtroopers are probably the most bewilderingly underrated unit in all of 40k.

Not unfamiliar with them at all, but my usual opponents hug cover quite a bit, just as I do. We play with a lot of terrain. It is a once in a month (if that) chance that you happen to catch a unit of marines just sitting in the open. And after you deepstrike, the other marines present destroy the stormtroopers. If you infiltrate them then you are sitting well out of range of your 18" shooters, and even further out of effective range. If you outflank your opponent knows to keep the men immediately near the board edge in cover. They really aren't as deadly as they could be, but they are a hard unit to balance and not overpower. And unless those stormtroopers reach melee range, they can't scratch tanks without adding in special weapons (but then who doesn't add those).

Well if they're behind directional cover you can easily ignore it with proper deepstriking.

The usual Stormtrooper tactic is to take 5 and give them 2 melta guns and pop something expensive.

The thing I'd do to buff them is to put Bastonne as a Stormtrooper character, being able to give the Bring it down, Fire on my target and Move Move Move to the squad.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Well if they're behind directional cover you can easily ignore it with proper deepstriking.

The usual Stormtrooper tactic is to take 5 and give them 2 melta guns and pop something expensive.

The thing I'd do to buff them is to put Bastonne as a Stormtrooper character, being able to give the Bring it down, Fire on my target and Move Move Move to the squad.

Good point, if they are using an aegis or something then you can deepstrike behind them. They just haven't cropped up much in my recent games, we are all too cheap to fork out/too lazy to make our own.

Mind you, if you want to kill anything that is not a 5 man termie band, in which case you want 2 plasma guns and 2x pistols on the sargeant, you'll need those 10 Stormies, preferably with the plasma gun, as its almost a guaranteed 4 kills.

Buttons wrote:


Now, I wouldn't mind some sort of option that allows them to super charge them or something for a turn, maybe something like a special operations.
Incinerate, the storm troopers have modified their weapons so they can unleash their entire payload in a few extremely powerful shots. Becomes str 5 AP 2 assault 1 or something (maybe increase range to 24" to represent the increased power) and suffers from gets hot. More useful against high toughness enemies and terminators. In return they lose all other special operations so they can't deepstrike in and murder those terminators, but they can scare them off an objective.

Well in DoW:2 the one with the inquisitor, storm troopers had options to hotswap their kit to overload, though I rmb this made them take more damage, maybe the powerpacks are more prone to rupture with a stray round or something.

Would you guys rather it be a special operation to overcharge thier guns? One use only? If not one use, add the gets hot special rule?

Good posts keep em coming.

Also another thought, how about giving them stubborn?

Simple idea to turn them away from their actual role of melta suicide units
lower their price (I'd say somewhere around 12 when compared to "modern" DA Tac) and limit their special weapons to 1 per 5 guys in the unit

I think the WS 3 is fine as their extra training in CC is already represented by their ability to dual wield (pistol + CCW), and it still gives an edge to Krieg grenadiers

Infiltrating units could have Stealth as an USR

Maybe give two profiles to the hotshot lasgun
high power:
18'' S3 AP3 Rapid Fire
low power:
24'' S3 AP5 Rapid Fire

Stormtroopers should have the option to take Demo charges as special weapons I'd think
Maybe if they take the "demolitions" special ops training, granting them Tank Hunters & melta bombs

 Kasrkin52 wrote:
Would you guys rather it be a special operation to overcharge thier guns? One use only? If not one use, add the gets hot special rule?

Actually, that would make a good special operation. Giving them more punch than they have now, but at the cost of their deep strike accuracy is actually a reasonable tradeoff.

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Kasrkin52 wrote:
Would you guys rather it be a special operation to overcharge thier guns? One use only? If not one use, add the gets hot special rule?

Actually, that would make a good special operation. Giving them more punch than they have now, but at the cost of their deep strike accuracy is actually a reasonable tradeoff.

Okay, so what stats would you propose? Just the +1 S?