Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi guys,

I am reasonably new to 6th so please forgive me if this is a bit of a noober

Is my interpretation of the rules below correct?


If an enemy psyker uses a psychic power on my unit with a Runepriest with wolf tail talisman - I get a 4+ nullify from the runic weapon, then if that fails a 4 or 5+ deny the witch, and then if that fails a 5+ wolf tail talisman nullify?

Thanks,

From the Space Wolves FAQ (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2940050a_Space_Wolves_v1.2_JANUARY13.pdf)

Q: Can I attempt to use a Rune Priest’s runic weapon, a Wolf Tail Talisman and make a Deny the Witch roll to nullify an enemy psychic power?
A: No. You can only make a single attempt to prevent an enemy psychic power, so choose your method carefully.

Quanar wrote:
From the Space Wolves FAQ (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2940050a_Space_Wolves_v1.2_JANUARY13.pdf)

Q: Can I attempt to use a Rune Priest’s runic weapon, a Wolf Tail Talisman and make a Deny the Witch roll to nullify an enemy psychic power?
A: No. You can only make a single attempt to prevent an enemy psychic power, so choose your method carefully.

Now that I didnt know!, man I was cheated in a game, not that it mattered much but as my tzeentch daemons are ALL psyhic powers, to buff de buff and shoot it made a difference :(

The Runic Weapon roll is slightly different in that it cancels successful enemy psyker tests that originate within 24" of the RP. If the test originated beyond 24" you can only make a normal DTW roll.
Also, it is important to note that giving your Runepreist a WTT is a TOTAL waste of 5pts. You're runepriest is already getting an inherent 5+/4+ deny the witch (5+if he is the same level as the opposing caster, 4+ if he is higher lvl). You can only ever make one DTW roll so the WTT is a waste on a RP.

MarkyMark wrote:
Now that I didnt know!, man I was cheated in a game, not that it mattered much but as my tzeentch daemons are ALL psyhic powers, to buff de buff and shoot it made a difference :(

To be fair to any Space Wolf players out there doing it wrong, last edition they did get to roll for both the Runic Weapon and the talisman, and there is nothing in the 6th ed rulebook to indicate that both can not be used. Not everyone is aware of the FAQ.

God I disliked that FAQ, we looked like the ultimate anti-psykers there for a while. Pity it was like the 1st set of faqs.

I am still of the opinion that the rune priest gets a chance to nullify the power and THEN the individual unit gets their own wolftail talisman or deny the witch save.

I think the FAQ was intended to prevent a rune priest from using his runic weapon, then HIS OWN wolf tail talisman, and then the unit he had joined own deny the witch. That is overkill in my opinion clearly. However, I have no idea how a completely different unit's deny the witch or own wolftail talisman is rendered useless by the rune priests runic weapon used 24" away.

**NOTE**

I have no grounds for this argument above, I follow the FAQ as stated. I just think that it was poorly written to be far over encompassing.

It doesn't say a rune priest's talisman. It says "a talisman" and one attempt to negate a power. One go at stopping the power, if you fail to do it on the 4+ then you've had the best go at it.

 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:

I think the FAQ was intended to prevent a rune priest from using his runic weapon, then HIS OWN wolf tail talisman, and then the unit he had joined own deny the witch. .

So you get the runic weapon and the talisman, but only of they're carried by different units? How does that make any sense?

The FAQ is not unclear at all. You get one attempt to nullify the power.

 insaniak wrote:

 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:

I think the FAQ was intended to prevent a rune priest from using his runic weapon, then HIS OWN wolf tail talisman, and then the unit he had joined own deny the witch. .

So you get the runic weapon and the talisman, but only of they're carried by different units? How does that make any sense?

The FAQ is not unclear at all. You get one attempt to nullify the power.

Because a wolf lord on his own, with his own WTT, should be able to use it or have a deny the witch roll despite a rune priest some distance away failing his runic weapon roll. As it stands, if the rune priest fails his general runic weapon roll, units he is not even part of that may have been targeted don't get their own WTT or deny the witch roll. That is what seems odd to me. That individual gear and individual deny the witch rolls are made obsolete by the runic weapon.

As I said, I play it by the FAQ, but think it was intended for the loudest cries of cheese prior that focused on when a rune priest would get his runic staff roll, then he would get his own WTT roll, and then the unit he was with would get a deny the witch roll. I agree with that nerf completely. I just do not agree with other units being denied their own deny the witch or WTT roll.

 Tyr Grimtooth wrote:
Because a wolf lord on his own, with his own WTT, should be able to use it or have a deny the witch roll despite a rune priest some distance away failing his runic weapon roll.

Why? The runic weapon roll is better.

And if the unit did get to use the talisman as well as benefiting from the runic weapon, why wouldn't the Rune Priest also be able to use his talisman if he had one? If other units are going to get two attempts to nullify the power, surely the Rune Priest should as well...?

As it stands, if the rune priest fails his general runic weapon roll, units he is not even part of that may have been targeted don't get their own WTT or deny the witch roll. That is what seems odd to me. That individual gear and individual deny the witch rolls are made obsolete by the runic weapon.

If a model gets to take a Leadership test using the Ld of their nearby commander with Inspiring Presence, and they fail, should they also get to take the Leadership test again using their own Ld, since their own leadership value was made obsolete by the commander's?

This is ultimately the same thing. GW have decided that everybody should only have one attempt to nullify a power. So you can choose from the DtW, the talisman, or the Rune Priest's runic weapon... whichever is better.

As I said, I play it by the FAQ, but think it was intended for the loudest cries of cheese prior that focused on when a rune priest would get his runic staff roll, then he would get his own WTT roll, and then the unit he was with would get a deny the witch roll. I agree with that nerf completely.

But you're saying that just putting the talisman on the unit the Rune Priest is with should be fine... despite it having exactly the same result?

/sigh

You obviously have an axe to grind Insaniak as that is not what I am saying at all.

The FAQ should have just limited the amount of attempts the rune priest gets, with any unit he is attached. That is it.

Rune Priest + Grey Hunters = Runic Weapon

Rune Priest w/WTT = Runic Weapon or WTT, not both

Rune Priest = Runic Weapon
if failed then,
Targeted Grey Hunters = Deny the Witch

Rune Priest = Runic Weapon
if failed,
Targeted WGBL w/WTT + Grey Hunters = Deny the Witch or WTT, not both.

That is how it should be and that would have targeted people complaining about a Rune Priest getting a runic weapon roll, then a WTT roll, then a Deny the Witch roll.

Nope, no axe to grind, just trying to make sense of what you're suggesting.

Why should a unit accompanied by a Rune Priest be less protected against psychic attack than a unit 12" away? Because that's exactly where your examples lead. Your grey hunters joined to a rune priest just get the runic weapon effect, while the unit not joined to the priest gets both the runic weapon and their own null.

Seems a little backwards to me...

I amn't seeing an issue here Tyr, everyone gets a single shot to dispel the psychic attack. If you are worried about having characters nailed by PSA's then give them runic armour for the 5+ against psychic wounds.

Like I said, I am not proposing that there is a RAW argument for multiple saves, just my opinion that they should have been soley for the rune priest and any unit he is attached.

Insaniak, I think from my point of view it is more aligned with the FAQ just making WTT and Deny the Witch for units other then the rune priest useless. While the rune priest does have the best roll, something just doesn't feel right not allowing the "will" of a pack not get their Deny the Witch after the rune priest failed. The same applies to the talismatic effect of the WTT on an IC not with the rune priest.

SW get a better DTW then any other codex in the game, with 6th ed being quite psyhic focused in some respects SW have a huge advantage as it is, I wouldnt feel too disheartened that you only get 1 DTW at a 4plus

MarkyMark wrote:
SW get a better DTW then any other codex in the game, with 6th ed being quite psyhic focused in some respects SW have a huge advantage as it is, I wouldnt feel too disheartened that you only get 1 DTW at a 4plus

You'd be surprised how situational a runic weapon can be.

THe bubble is 24" from the rune priest to the psyker, if the enemy psyker is outside that you're just down to DTW or WTT even if your rune priest is effected.

 liturgies of blood wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
SW get a better DTW then any other codex in the game, with 6th ed being quite psyhic focused in some respects SW have a huge advantage as it is, I wouldnt feel too disheartened that you only get 1 DTW at a 4plus

You'd be surprised how situational a runic weapon can be.

THe bubble is 24" from the rune priest to the psyker, if the enemy psyker is outside that you're just down to DTW or WTT even if your rune priest is effected.

But the Runic Weapon can also be used to negate buffs your opponent casts on his own units. Something not available to most other armies.

True. GW gives with one hand and takes away with the other. I suppose the best thing it does is allow you to try and stop a force weapon being activated.

Not just force weapon, few of the blessings will affect games, iron arm prescience etc you can stop them. And GW is hardly taking away, if you are outside the 24inch bubble and get a normal DTW, you are getting as good as anyone else, inside the 24inch you are getting quite a good DTW as you usually have to be a level higher then the casting psyker to DTW (and thats only 6 inch bubble for psyhic hoods and unit for other psykers).

MarkyMark wrote:
blessings will affect games

This. Nullifying blessings is more important than stopping maledictions and witchfires IMO. Things like invisibility and iron arm can be game changing. Stopping them is awesome.