Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hello everyone, long time lurker but first time posting. Love reading these forums, and am hoping you guys can help me out with some direction.

First the list:

HQ
--------------
CCS-
Master of Ordinance

Total: 80
--------------

Elites
--------------
Storm Troopers-
x2 Melta Guns

Storm Troopers-
x2 Melta Guns

Troops
--------------
Veterans-
x2 plasma guns
Vox

PCS-
Vox
Infantry Squad-
Autocannon
Infantry Squad-
Autocannon

PCS-
Vox
Infantry Squad-
Autocannon
Infantry Squad-
Autocannon

Total:415
---------------

Fast Attack
---------------
Armored Sentinel-
Plasma cannon

Armored Sentinel-
Plasma cannon

Total: 150
---------------

Heavy Support
---------------
Basilisk
Basilisk

Basilisk

Basilisk

Total: 500
---------------

Fortifications
---------------
Aegis Defense Line-
Quad Gun

Total: 100
---------------

Army Cost-1455

Okay so obviously the goal of this army is to use those earthshaker cannons to obliterate everything on the table. While I am primarily looking to build this list for fun, I would also like to win occasionally. So I have a few concerns I hope you folks can help me address.

First, I am relying entirely on the ADL for my AA needs. I could drop one bassy in favor of two Hyrdras, however I am not sure if it's worth it. After all I am trying to pack as much artillery fire as I can in this list.

Second, what do you all think in regards to my anti armor potential? I feel as though the basilisks could pop anything AV12 and below, and for the rare instances when I encounter anything above that I have the Storm Troopers on stand by for a surgical strike. Will that be sufficient or should I be looking towards other options? perhaps some lascannon HWSquads?

Third, and this is potentially list killing... night fighting. I need spotters, where can I get them? Are scout sentinels my only option here?

I have tried to tailor my troops and fast attack to protecting the artillery, and decided on the plasma sents(not in a squadron) and veterans for a quick answer to enemy deep striking MEQ/TEQ. Should I drop the plasma vets all together and just put those points into my HQ?

I am just having trouble deciding where to pull points from in order to address these issues. Oh and I should mention I am not too keen on flyers, so please help me come up with something other than "MORE VENDETTA!".

Any and all help is greatly appreciated, thanks.

Welcome... Now, lets get to it.

Lets get down to bare bones here, you want to field 5-6 pie plates in 1500pts. Fine, this is the core of your list and we can build around that since that means we are effectively building a 1000pt list with no heavy slots. This leads me to some concerns...

You have suicide Storm troopers in a artillery list. Since reserves happen before shooting, you better make sure you fire them first so you don't scatter your arty on to them and blow them away. So, since they might not come in till turn 3-4, how effective will this really be? Apparently your not really worried about killing something if it takes you 3-4 turns till you get to it... doesn't feel like a must have unit at that point and I think you answered your own point...Lascannons will do the same job, starting turn 1 when you might really need that AT fire.

Your list is built around the Basilisks... no camo netting on them? You don't care they can get shot and that you will probably not have enough cover to hide them all to block LoS? Yeah, 150pts, but it is the core of your list, it is what your doing, so protect them.

Why do you not have a second CCS with a MoO? Why for the love of the Easter Bunny do you not have a HWS, Camo cloaks, and a OotF and maybe a banner and a plasma in it to keep the rest of your list on the board? In otherwords, how does a naked unit help you with anything.

Voxes... with no vox in your CCS to actually use the best orders. And a re-roll to get less than a 8 on 2d6 for 5pts /really/ feels like a waste. Either do Voxes right or don't do them at all. Your IG, those points could be special weapons... there are better uses for them IMO.

Plasma Cannon Sentinels... you have a weapon that not only has a scatter dice roll (so a 33% chance to hit), but can blow up your own walker by giving you a hull point of damage if you roll 'Get's Hot!'. That is 150pts of Infantry or to pay for your Basilisk's Camo Netting and will be of greater use.

Night fighting... you could get a couple of scout walkers, scout move them up 6" (into cover) and give them a Multi-laser or something else cheap, because they will probably not live past that round. Does mean less troops then.

Lets toss together a list and you tell me if you like my version or not. Even if you don't, use it for ideas.

CCS - 137pts
LC, Standard, Camo Cloaks, MoO, Bolter

Lord Commissar - 80pts (manning Quad Gun)
Camo Cloak

PCS - 50pts
4x Sniper Rifles or 2x SRs, AC

PIS - 110pts (blob 1)
AC, Melta, Commissar, MB

PIS - 75pts (blob 1)
AC, Melta, MB

PCS - 50pts
4x Sniper Rifles or 2x SRs, AC

PIS - 110pts (blob 2)
AC, Melta, Commissar, MB

PIS - 75pts (blob 2)
AC, Melta, MB

Scout Walker - 46pts
Camo Netting, Spot Light

Scout Walker - 46pts
Camo Netting, Spot Light

Basilisk - 155pts
Camo Netting

Basilisk - 155pts
Camo Netting

2x Basilisk - 310pts
Camo Netting

ADL - 100pts
Quad gun

1499pts

Tactics:
Lay out the ADL in a straight line, maybe the end pieces angled back at a 45 degree angle. Place all of your Basilisks behind the ADL, somewhat spread out (you have 28" to work with plus terrain you place). This way they will for sure get cover saves by the wall. Place each blob on the outside quarters of the wall to protect your flanks with your CCS toward the middle. Place the Quad gun behind the wall to give it and the Lord a cover save. It still has to be touching the wall, as it is a part of it as a upgraded equipment piece.
Scout Move the Sentinels up behind partial cover to give them the biggest field of view possible. On your turn, do not move them if you can help it, so they get the benefit of the Netting. If they can spot something with the searchlight, they do not get the benefits from Night fighting.
Use your CCS to issue Orders to itself, the Lord Commissar, PCSs, or the Blobs. I think the two best orders you should use are 'Bring it Down!' to make all weapons twin-linked for killing MCs and Vehicles or 'Fire on my Target!' to ignore cover saves (both the CCS and unit getting the Order has to have LoS to the Target). If you can wait a turn and not use Intercept on your opponent's turn, you could issue 'Fire on my Target!' to your Lord and you will have 4 TLed, BS 5 AC shots that ignore cover saves (jink and the like).
The Melta guns and Melta bombs on your blobs are defensive weapons to deal with DSing Terminators and Walkers and incase a MC gets in CC with them. if you ditch one Sentinel, you could upgrade all of your PIS ACs to LCs, so keep that in mind if you don't mind blasting one target during Nightfighting.
Remember your MoO and CCS LC have to fire on the same unit.
I would have your PCSs flanking the Lord Commissar to make use of his 'Aura of Discipline' for Orders, Morale rolls and Pinning Tests. If you get a chance to fire on a MC on the ground and you give your PCSs all sniper rifles, giving each orders to make them twin linked can probably take that MC out. Also remember that Snipers that hit on a 6 can choose what takes the wound, and if they roll a 6 to wound, makes their attack Rending. Even if you give them no orders, just have them fire on squads with heavy or special weapons hidden in them to try to pick them out. I would rather leave them a mass of Sniper Rifles as I think SRs have to be in mass to be effective. The only other option (for the points given) is to go one AC, two Snipers or four flamers. I feel the Flamers make them to limited due to the short range, but if you face a lot of DSing lists, this is a valid option. I sometimes use the AC in my sniper PCSs because I feel the Snipers can fire on the same targets the AC can, even light armor. You have to be realy lucky for them to pen AV 11 but at least it is a chance

Hope this helps... good luck!

Thanks for all of the input BlkTom. This really helps a lot. It makes a ton more sense to outfit the blobs for anti deep striking than it does to take two plasma sentinels, that's really great advice. You're also quite right about getting the camo nets on the basilisks.

I really like your list and it gives me a lot to work with.

Your advice on waiting to use intercept in order to issue orders to the lord commissar could help to alleviate the lack of AA, however I still feel like I'm lacking on heavy tank busting. This points level really makes you think about what you want versus what you need. With the new inclusion of double FOC at 2k, I feel like 1500pt lists are going to be the most rewarding to play.

Dropping a single basilisk might be an option if it granted me a reliable anti armor option. That would open up 156 points for some armor busting. The question would become how to spend it. A single HWS outfitted with lascannons could be a threat with 'bring it down" and that leaves enough points left over to further upgrade the blobs or command squad. Is it worth sacrificing that pie plate though? You mentioned dropping one scout sentinel could be an option for bringing in more lascannons, but in the event of night fighting, I would be relying entirely on that lone sentinel for spotting.

In dropping a single basilisk I sacrifice one s9 ap3 pie plate. I could gain from this three twin-linked lascannons(with the use of orders), The possibility to delay their reserves with an OotF, and have 26 points left to maximize blob usefulness.
With that remaining 26 points I could even drop the LC from my CCS and put that into a third scout sentinel, which puts the list at 1500 points on the nose. I suppose the big question is: Will that HWS survive long enough to be useful in it's role? Would I be better off just pounding heavy armor with four basilisks?

If I were to drop one basilisk from the list, how would you suggest investing the points?

I <3 basilisks, they're hilarious. However I dislike Sentinels. If I were to drop anything it'd be them.

If you did want to reduce your bassie count I'd remove the one in the squadron. That way you can fire on three seperate targets if it is nessecary. I would reinvest the points in getting a Lord Commissar as BlkTom suggests in his list. If you get rid of the sentinals you can keep that basilisk, loading up on some of those las cannon attachments you're suggesting. I wouldn't worry about the survivability of the HWT...you do have an ADL.

Of course nightfighting is possible. I enjoy not setting up for that because of hilarity. Though it is always an option to run a pair of scout walkers with spotlights if you are worried about it.

A camo cloak on a lord commissar is a waste. The FAQ changed camo cloaks to only give +1 cover to the equipped model.

Corollax wrote:
A camo cloak on a lord commissar is a waste. The FAQ changed camo cloaks to only give +1 cover to the equipped model.

And I want a 3+ cover save vs a 4+ cover save because I want to make my saves more than 50% of the time while I am behind the ADL. I am more than willing to pay a few points to ensure the survivability of my lone AA unit. If I could give the gun itself more than a 4+ cover save for being behind the wall, I would. Personally, I like the Icarus over the Quad, but the quad allows you to do damage to whole squads of flyers so both have their perks.

Sighdan...

To be honest, the rest is opinion, not fact. Playtest it and tweak it... see how often you have Night fighting come up Turn 1 and make a call if you want that extra Sentinel or not. Figure out how useful they are when it isn't night fighting. Then if you determine that you really want/need two, then look at dropping a Basilisk.

If you do drop a Basilisk I think I would get a LC HWS. Make sure you keep it within 6" of the Lord and within range of your CCS banner and they will have to pretty much be killed to the man before they run. Remember that they have to be touching the ADL to not have it block LoS. At that point, you have 50pts to spend on the head (We re talking 155pt Basilisks, kinda going off of my list here). A Officer of the Fleet is a solid buy and helps you deal with Flyers by hopefully stringing them along to make it easier on your AA. Obviously this is a risk/reward point, because if they roll well or don't have flyers/reserves/DSers, it is wasted points. Again, much like the Camo Cloak, you take it to give you every little advantage you can get. With the last 20pts you could upgrade all of your Melta guns to Plasma guns. I think you will be fine at 1500pts with 2 sources of LC fire. You then have to figure out if that is more efficient than if you had your 5th Pie plate.