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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/01 10:14:36
Subject: Eldar Arms and Armour (Vehicle upgrades)
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Wicked Warp Spider
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These proposed rules makes use of the concept of location. You may only have one upgrade at any given location on the vehicle, meaning you can't pimp it out completely. All upgrades are purchased per vehicle when upgrading squads. Assumptions 1. Falcons is a dedicated transport. 2. No vehicles are upgraded or altered unless noted in here. This includes costs. 3. Warlocks may be purchased at most 10 per FOC. Warlocks are Mastery Lavel 1 psychers with leadership 10. Warlocks cost 35 points with no mandatory upgrades required and generates psychic powers normally. Warlocks can not be upgraded to Mastery Level 2. Under-slung weapon and the concept of medium weapons This is not an upgrade slot as such, but rather a discussion of the under-slung weapon and it's potential. The concept is simple, Eldar have light, medium and heavy weapons. Light weapons: Lasblasters, flamers and Catapults. These assault weapons are issued infantry and is the default under-slung weapon for bikes and skimmers as well as Wraithlord arm-guns. Medium weapons: Shuriken Cannons, Fusion guns and Haywire Launchers. These assault weapons are sometimes issued infantry, but serves primarily as upgrades under-slung weapons for some jet bikes and skimmers. Heavy weapons: Missile launchers, Scatter Lasers and Bright Lances. These heavy weapons are issued infantry gun platforms and weapons platforms such as War Walkers, Wraithlord shoulders and skimmers. Support weapons: D-Cannon, Shadow Weaver and Vibrocannon. These extra-heavy weapons are issued special artillery platforms and special vehicles only. How does this mesh with this suggestion? 1. All vehicles are purchased with Shuriken Cannons for free in all slots that were previously empty and all weapon upgrades are discounted the price of this weapon. This also includes Guardian Defender platforms, by the way. War Walkers are made 10 points more expensive. 2. Under-slung weapons for skimmers and 1-in-3 jet bikes may also include Twin-linked Heat Lance (+10 points), Haywire Launcher (R24" S3 AP3, Assault 2, Haywire) (+15 points) Vanes Vanes are located on the edges of skimmers skimmers somewhere above the AG-plating. Holo-Fields (15 points) - The skimmer receives Stealth. Bonus from this Stealth applies to this vehicle only in a squad. Energy-Fields (20 points) - Front and side arcs are protected and treats ranged attacks of S9 or S10 as S8 as well as are immune to melta or melta-like effects from ranged attacks. No effect on melee. Wave Serpents have this for free and may not upgrade or alter it. Plasma Prow (10 points) - When attempting to leap out of the way of a tank shock, enemy models suffer a S7 hit unless they manage an initiative check. Rammed enemy vehicles suffer this hit automatically prior to impact hits are rolled. No impact hits are rolled if the vehicle being rammed explodes from this damage. Jet Engines Jet Engines are located in the rear of a skimmer and provides propulsion to Eldar crafts. Vectored Engines (15 points) - ignore the negative effects of terrain. You must still be able to physically place the model. Star Engines (35 points) - Vehicle type changes to (Flyer, Hover). All vehicles in a squad must be upgraded with this upgrade if one is. Pilot The pilot is a universal slot for all Eldar vehicles. Corsair (15 points) - Assign the vehicle to an Eldar on the Path of the Outcast whom has BS4. Star Eagle (25 points) - Assign the vehicle to an Aspect Warrior whom has BS4, WS4, Initiative 5 and preferred enemy against either Monsters (Monstrous Creatures and T5 or higher models), Infantry (non-monstrous creatures with T4 or lower) or vehicles. Warlock (35 points) - Assign the vehicle to a Warlock. The Warlock has BS4, WS4, Initiative 5 and is a psychic pilot at master level 1. You may only have a limited number of Warlocks in your army and this vehicle will count towards that total. Crystal A crystal is an auxiliary upgrade slot in excess of the Eldar's preference for decorating their vehicles in gems. A crystal is typically a container of extraordinary computing power or even houses the soul of a dead Eldar warrior. Spirit Stone (10 points) - Treat crew shaken and crew stunned results as glancing hits. The vehicle may not be disabled or deliberated through attacks or effects on the crew (clarification: this is not fluff). Crystal Targeting Matrix (15 points) - The vehicle may conduct a shooting phase during it's normal movement phase. If it does, it's shooting phase may only be used as a movement phase. All vehicles in a squad must be upgraded with this if one is. Scrying Stones (10 points) - The vehicle gains Night Vision. Shielding Array A shielding array is an energy source dedicated to protecting the Eldar pilot. Larger vehicles such as skimmers do not need this array and as such this array is only available in vehicles like War Walkers and Vypers. Holo-Fields (15 points) - The Walker receives Stealth. Bonus from this Stealth applies to this vehicle only in a squad. Hardened Array (15 points) - The Walker's shielding array is hardened, providing an increase in armour value to 11 in the front and side arcs. Troop compartment These upgrade is only available on vehicles with a troop compartment. Internal Shielding (10 points) - The troops inside are protected from the outside by overlapping internal shimmer shields. The embarked troops may not take damage or be affected by models or events not originating from squad members and may disembark normally without suffering wounds should the vehicle be destroyed. Inertia Controls (20 points) - Allows the vehicle to conduct deployments at greater decelerations. Vehicle may disembark troops after moving up to 12" and these troops may assault after disembarking. Energy Recycler (25 points) - A vehicle upgraded with a recycler sacrifices it's entire troop compartment in order to provide more power to it's weapons. The vehicle may not be purchased as a dedicated transport, but rather is purchased as Heavy Support and may fire one of it's weapons twice as many times as it ordinarily would. Upgrade slots by vehicle. Vypers: Under-slung, Shielding Array, Vanes, Jet Engines, Crystal, Pilot. Falcon: Under-slung, Vanes, Jet Engines, Crystal, Pilot, Troop compartment. Wave Serpent: Under-slung, Jet Engines, Crystal, Pilot, Troop compartment. Fire Storm: Under-slung, Vanes, Jet Engines, Crystal, Pilot, Troop compartment. Spinner: Under-slung, Vanes, Jet Engines, Crystal. A Spinner has an Aspect Warrior pilot. Prism: Under-slung, Vanes, Jet Engines, Crystal. A Prism has an Aspect Warrior pilot. Warp Hunter: Under-slung, Vanes, Jet Engines, Crystal. A Warp Hunter has a Corsair pilot. War Walker: Under-slung, Shielding Array, Vanes, Crystal, Pilot. Wasp: Under-slung, Shielding Array, Vanes, Jet Engines, Crystal, Pilot. Hornet: Under-slung, Vanes, Jet Engines, Crystal, Pilot. Nightwing: Crystal. Phoenix: Crystal. Automatically Appended Next Post: Yes, I do realize the Star Engine suggestion is super-controversial, even if it makes sense by fluff.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/04/01 10:25:20
I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/01 10:50:08
Subject: Re:Eldar Arms and Armour (Vehicle upgrades)
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Sniping Hexa
Dublin
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Star Engines (35 points) - Vehicle type changes to (Flyer, Hover). All vehicles in a squad must be upgraded with this upgrade if one is.
Inertia Controls (20 points) - Allows the vehicle to conduct deployments at greater decelerations. Vehicle may disembark troops after moving up to 12" and these troops may assault after disembarking.
How to put it simply ... No
You want flyers ? take a Nightwing or a whatverhisnameis Eldar Bomber, they're good for their price
Replace the Star Engine effect with something like "can move flat out at 36 inches if it choses to do so"
grav tanks are grav, not full-blown flyers with the agility that goes along
A Fast Skimmer Assault disembark at 12'' 10 slots transport vehicle ? For 80-100 points more maybe ....
Apart from that, quite a few interesting ideas, though I didn't check everything in detail
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/01 16:18:57
Subject: Re:Eldar Arms and Armour (Vehicle upgrades)
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Deadly Dire Avenger
Colorado Springs
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I agree that flying skimmers is fluffy but completely too incompatible for crunch. I would love to have it but think too many people would call foul. If you used something like what the FW Lynx does... maybe, but I don't think the world is ready for this.
The assault vehicle upgrade doesn't cause me too much grief though a point mod may be justified but not by what TanKol suggests. Considering we have the most expensive transports in the game barring the Land Raider (for significantly less protection), I don't think its unreasonable for them to have the option of some toys. If a wave serpent has a cost of 90pts without the turret or any other upgrades then for 110pts with a Mandatory turret purchase on top or a mandatory pilot slot wouldn't be unreasonable. You are paying through the nose to move 10 models across the table. If you're willing to pay then I'd be willing to play.
What I don't understand is the whole pilot aspect of the suggestion. You're saying that the vehicle now has a WS of 4 when assaulted? and that it has the ability to retaliate? or does the vehicle just have an initiative value that has no use? Does the Warlock get to use his psychic powers while in the vehicle or is there some kind of eject option once its immobilized? Could you clear this up for me?
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"I have all the powers of Hell at my disposal. Who are you to question me?"
"You stand accused of violence against Iyanden. That your crime has not yet been committed is of no consequence. The sentence is oblivion."
14k 12/4/1 6th
3k 4/1/2
2.5k 9/2/0
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/01 20:52:02
Subject: Eldar Arms and Armour (Vehicle upgrades)
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Wicked Warp Spider
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TanKol, you react to the 12" disembark, no? Or is it the combination?
Regarding the flight, consider this: A Falcon with this can be taken as a dedicated transport for up to 6 models. It'd cost 140 points. Since it's a flyer it would stick up on a flight stand (should clarify) and it would have a Under-slung ShuriCat (360 degress fire), and a top-turret ShuriCan+Pulse (neither of which are physically capable of shooting close to the vehicle due to the vehicle shape). The vehicle itself is 12/12/10. I kept the cost short simply because more than 35 points on a Vyper is quite simply stupidly expensive.
That said, I do realise that it's highly controversial and also risks making Eldar into simply "THE flying circus" which is not what I'd ever aim for.
That said, Eldar skimmers are better aircrafts than most Imperial aircrafts which are actually flyers in game.
I am worried that it's too much for too little, though. How about these?
Troop compartment
Inertia Controls (10 points) - Allows the vehicle to disembark troops after moving up to 12".
Assault Hatch (15 points) - The vehicle becomes an assault vehicle.
(i.e. the two effects become incompatible with each other)
Engines
Star Engine (40 points) - The vehicle becomes type (Flyer, Hover). Dedicated Transports purchased with this upgrade loses their Dedicated Transport status and takes a Fast Attack slot.
(Cost increase and limits the number of flyers by banning them as DT)
Farseer14: Regarding the pilot, yes you can stick them in War Walkers, that's why some of the pilots have WS. The default pilot is a Guardian at WS3, BS3, Init 4.
A skimmer have nothing to manipulate or defend itself with in close combat and does not have a WS value that it can modify - ergo a Warlock wouldn't make it WS4 by virtue of being a Warlock.
A Warlock inside the vehicle makes it have Psychic Pilot special rule. Psychic powers are rolled on LD10, Perils of the Warp results in a glancing hit. Measurements and line of sight is drawn from the hull of the vehicle - it's the vehicle that's the psycher. Just like the Furiouso Dreadnought.
A Warlock in a vehicle that's destroyed or wrecked is also destroyed. No saves, no ejections, no use for that fancy robe. He lives and dies with his vehicle once in there. (Actually, he crawls out of the wreck and spends most of the remainder of the fight masking his presence as he takes his broken body back to a Webway and safety)
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I really need to stay away from the 40K forums. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/02 05:07:18
Subject: Eldar Arms and Armour (Vehicle upgrades)
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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Actually there is a way to make Falcons Flyers. One of the Apocalypse formations (Cloud Strike Squadron) allows Falcons to become Flyers until the start of their next turn, but cannot fire their weapons.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/02 08:02:07
Subject: Eldar Arms and Armour (Vehicle upgrades)
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Morphing Obliterator
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I like some of the stuff on here, particularly the shielding array and troop compartment options.
The star engines are potentially a bit OP, although it is pricey and you can only take 3 unless using 2 FOC's.
I can see GW putting fliers into Fast Attack in the new codex though. I hope so as our HS section is pretty full as it is!
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Chaos Space Marines - Iron Warriors & Night Lords 7900pts
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/02 08:25:56
Subject: Eldar Arms and Armour (Vehicle upgrades)
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Sniping Hexa
Dublin
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It's much better with the new costs / rules
Indeed, assault can be fine, disembarking after moving 12 as well, but both is out of the question :
-move 12
-turn serpent 90 degrees (must be about 2 free inches there)
-disembark 6
-auto-assault or close enough with fleet (on Turn 1)
Flying falcons without transport for 40 points is fine as well
If Vendettas were just gunship with no transport capacity, they'd still be over the top, but not so brokenly
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