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How does the terror of the deep rule (units that cannot be moved are destroyed) interact with the Bastion (buildings cannot be completely destroyed.) And how would you place the Mawloc after TTFD attack?

Without any rules to back me up. I suggest: the attack is only S6 IIRC so can't harm the Bastion, and the Bastion is immobile and therefore impassable, and so if the Mawloc has a similar rule to the Drop Pod it is either moved the minimum distance required or takes a mishap.

The Bastion is not a unit. It is terrain.

The bastion or any building is not a model or a unit and therefor does not meet the requirements to be damaged or moved. There is no rule as to where the Mawloc is coming from so our group has ruled it to be out of the ground per the fluff. As such even though it is a large creature it isn't going to affect the building but is going to suffer a mishap as buildings are counted as impassable terrain except for the battlements.

 phantommaster wrote:
Without any rules to back me up. I suggest: the attack is only S6 IIRC so can't harm the Bastion, and the Bastion is immobile and therefore impassable, and so if the Mawloc has a similar rule to the Drop Pod it is either moved the minimum distance required or takes a mishap.

If this is the case, then it'd end up on the battlements.

They are terrain but not impassable unless it's an impassable building.

I thought you could Deep Strike on top of battlements.
If that is the case, as a deep strike ability, you should be able to deep strike the Mawloc on top of the building, clearing off any enemy models on the top (forced fall?) and the building would also end up under the template but would not be damaged since it is not being shot or assaulted (the only ways to damage a building as far as I can tell)

if its not impassible then what happens does it phase into the unit inside

 forchoas wrote:
if its not impassible then what happens does it phase into the unit inside

It Deep Strikes on top the battlements(the top of the building) if that is where the Deep Strike scatter roll takes it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is the FAQ for it:

"Q:Can a unit deploy onto battlements by Deep Strike? (p95)
A: A unit may attempt to Deep Strike onto battlements;
however, if after determining scatter, the entire unit cannot
deploy onto the battlements (for example if several models
would land on the battlements and others would have to
land on the ground next to the building, and thus out of
coherency) then the unit must roll on the Deep Strike
Mishap Table."

 DeathReaper wrote:
The Bastion is not a unit. It is terrain.

While true, the rules state ""Buildings of all types use aspects of the Transport vehicle rules." and " Units may shoot at or
charge an occupied building just as if it was a vehicle.""

Unless the stance is taken that TTFD is a special attack and cannot be targeted at the building because its not a "shooting or charging" attack.

Fragile wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The Bastion is not a unit. It is terrain.

While true, the rules state ""Buildings of all types use aspects of the Transport vehicle rules." and " Units may shoot at or
charge an occupied building just as if it was a vehicle.""

Unless the stance is taken that TTFD is a special attack and cannot be targeted at the building because its not a "shooting or charging" attack.

Yes that was my thought. Purely RAW we are only permitted to attack the building as if it was a vehicle with shooting or CC attacks. TFTD is neither.

Edit: How it tunneled all the way through the building without hurting it is a mystery though... and what about the units inside the building? I guess it was stealth tunneling and they didn't notice the giant MC digging its way up.... I like to play with fluff in mind so this would be a good place for some house rules IMO.

There is a question of limits of Deep Strike. How much of the model must be on the battlements for it to be on the battlements as opposed to be on the ground and part in the building/impassable terrain?

Fragile wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
The Bastion is not a unit. It is terrain.

While true, the rules state ""Buildings of all types use aspects of the Transport vehicle rules." and " Units may shoot at or
charge an occupied building just as if it was a vehicle.""

Unless the stance is taken that TTFD is a special attack and cannot be targeted at the building because its not a "shooting or charging" attack.

Indeed TFTD Is not shooting or charging.

 Gravmyr wrote:
There is a question of limits of Deep Strike. How much of the model must be on the battlements for it to be on the battlements as opposed to be on the ground and part in the building/impassable terrain?

Good point, This does not exactly fall under any of the conditions for a mishap(table edge, impassable terrain, friendly/enemy models)... but you can't place 3/4s a model on the on the ground and the rest on the building nor with the model sitting on top with most of the base hanging over the edge...

I'd say if it's center point of the model or in this case L. Blast marker (in other words the precise point of your Deep Strike) is on top of the building then the model should be placed on top. If it's on the ground but to close to the building to properly place the model... well lacking any rule telling us what to do(that I have found) I'd suggest one of a few possible ways it could be played.

1. Play as a mishap anyways
2. place the model as close as possible on the ground
3. 50/50 odds for options 1 or 2
4. Place the model as close as possible on the ground but it takes a hit as if it fell from the top of the building.

Of course these are not rules based at all, just entirely made up suggestions for how one could handle an unclear scenario. If anyone has knows anything rules based here I'd like to hear it.

Edit: WMS?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ah, found it. "Deep striking units count non-ruined buildings (except for their battlements) as impassable terrain." Arriving by DS, page 36 BRB.

So if your not on the battlements (the precise point of DS is on the ground) the building counts as impassible terrain. Therefore if you cannot place the model due to the building being in the way, it's a mishap.

In pure tactical sense? You might want to just use the mawloc attack on something around it, and if it survives you go over to the bastion and smash it.

The next question becomes what if you do scatter to the building? All DS into ruins happens on the bottom floor but it also says you can deep strike onto battlements of buildings. Does it mean that if it scatters far enough it can change the height at which you are deep striking? I lean towards no. You can try to DS onto the battlements but not scatter onto the battlements. I point towards the scattering of skimmers as indication that even though a model may have rules allowing it to stop on impassable terrain this does not allow it to DS into/through it.

I have a question.

Mawloc is a MC and by rule MC cannot enter buildings nor go up ruins.

Doesn't that make buildings impassable to the Mawloc and thus a mishap?

Nah the mawloc from the deep rule say that if the target cant move, then it will move. so i guess it does the attack on the building but must move next to it.

Dracoknight wrote:
Nah the mawloc from the deep rule say that if the target cant move, then it will move. so i guess it does the attack on the building but must move next to it.

Really, because i was under the impression that if the target can't move then it is destroyed?

Edit: I don't play Tyranids so I not up on their rules. Where is Rig when you need him?!?

40k-noob wrote:

Dracoknight wrote:
Nah the mawloc from the deep rule say that if the target cant move, then it will move. so i guess it does the attack on the building but must move next to it.

Really, because i was under the impression that if the target can't move then it is destroyed?

Edit: I don't play Tyranids so I not up on their rules. Where is Rig when you need him?!?

If a model cannot move it is destroyed. Buildings are not models, they are terrain.

 Happyjew wrote:

40k-noob wrote:

Dracoknight wrote:
Nah the mawloc from the deep rule say that if the target cant move, then it will move. so i guess it does the attack on the building but must move next to it.

Really, because i was under the impression that if the target can't move then it is destroyed?

Edit: I don't play Tyranids so I not up on their rules. Where is Rig when you need him?!?

If a model cannot move it is destroyed. Buildings are not models, they are terrain.

So does the Mawloc moving itself then as Dracoknight mentioned?

TftD only happens if the Mawloc DS o top of models, instead of suffering a mishap.

Of course if the building was occupied...I now have a picture of a Mawloc wearing Grouch Marx glasses/moustache tunneling up through the bastion so the enemy doesn't notice it...

 Happyjew wrote:
TftD only happens if the Mawloc DS o top of models, instead of suffering a mishap.

Of course if the building was occupied...I now have a picture of a Mawloc wearing Grouch Marx glasses/moustache tunneling up through the bastion so the enemy doesn't notice it...

Soooo.....not sure how that answers my question.

So is the Mawloc scattering under a building a mishap or does the Mawloc move over next to he building?

He would scatter on top of the building. If he can balance up there fine. If not...WMS.

Really as far as I can tell, the rules don't cover TFTD's interaction with buildings very well... at all.

The only things that are clear are that you can TFTD the battlements (but leave the inside of the building unharmed... wat) and that the building won't be harmed (it's terrain).

What happens on a scatter, where does the Mawloc end up after resolving TFTD, and other things are big "HYWPI" areas because the rules simply don't cover them.

I thought an occupied building was treated as a transport and could be moved?

I think they are very unclear on things that should be simple sometimes.

 Mythra wrote:
I thought an occupied building was treated as a transport

Only when shooting or assaulting it.

It is still terrain.

I know that is is the consensus but BRB it states --- treated like a transport in most instances then fails to tell you what those instances are.

 Mythra wrote:
I know that is is the consensus but BRB it states --- treated like a transport in most instances then fails to tell you what those instances are.

Actually Page 93 is quite clear.

"Units may shoot at or charge an occupied building just as if it was a vehicle." (93)