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Howdy dakka! I couldn't find much on this topic anywhere else so I figured I would post it up. I am wondering how my fellow warbosses out there stack up nob bikerz vs. nobz in a battlewagon? Anyone will tell you that nob bikerz are a beastly unit with a 4+ cover, 4+ armor, and T5 but what about nob squads in wagons? Less stats base (but even a nob with heavy armor is 20pts less than a biker) but potential for more bodies and trade off from a cover save to a wagon to ride in. Does the list make the difference? Are bikers always going to trump nobz in wagons? Would we all be better off covering grots in spiky bitz and stikk bombs and launching them from catapults ? How do you guys stack them up?

I'd go with boyz in a battlewagon. More attacks, cheaper, can still grab a nob with PK. Nob bikers are really on a whole different level if kitted out properly.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

In my list I run both: I have a small (3-4) nob squad of bikers and then a larger (6-10) nob squad of regular nobs in a battlewagon. (the amount depends on the point limit of the game)

 Che-Vito wrote:

1750 Waaagh! wrote:
HQ:
Warboss
- Mega Armor

Big Mek
- Kustom Force Field

Troops:

Ork Boyz
- 18 Boyz, 1 Nob
- Bosspole, Ard' Armor
- Trukk w/ RPJ

Ork Boyz
- 11 Boyz, 1 Nob w/ Bosspole
- Trukk w/ RPJ

Nob Bikerz
- 4 models
- 1 Power Klaw, 3 Big Choppas
- Bosspole

Elites:
Nob Bikerz
- 4 models
- 1 Power Klaw, 3 Big Choppas
- Bosspole

Nobz
- 4 models, 'wavy armor,
Battlewagon
- 'are case, RPJ, wrecking' ball, grabbing' klaw, reinforced ram,

Burnas
- 5 models

Heavy:

Battlewagon
- Killkannon, 'ard case, deff rolla, RPJ,

Battlewagon
- 'are case, RPJ, deff rolla

Killa Kanz
- 3 models, 3 Grotzookas

My friend's 1750 list, uses both bikes and battlewagons. In his 2,000 point list, he simply adds 5 bikes.

No painboys?

In my 1750 I run 4 BWs filled with boyz. 3 Nob s(4th BW) hide out in back of the board

< Taken by the void dragon. >

I'd look at it more as a model thats 50% more expensive (as opposed to "75 points", but makes the whole unit 33% tougher. He adds about the same attack power as a normal Nob, much more in certain circumstances, less in others if the Nob its replacing has a big choppa (which many argue is no better than slugga/choppa overall except against vehicles)

Or even better, a unit of 3 vanilla Nobz and 1 PK, upgrading a single vanilla to a painboy, goes from 300 -> 330, a 10% increase in cost for a 33% increase in toughness.

With regards to Bikers and Battlewagons I'd say run both, or run the wagons. Deff rollas are too good to pass up. I'm slowly putting together a force like that army list posted above (or perhaps even all nobz for gaks and giggles), starting with twenty foot sloggin nobz and a couple wagons and converting a bunch of deff koptas into nob bikers

 Dakkamite wrote:
if the Nob its replacing has a big choppa (which many argue is no better than slugga/choppa overall except against vehicles)

I've heard this one too. I guess weight of attacks beats out wounding on 2s instead of 3s, I'm guessing the advantage only gets bigger the more nobz you have swinging.

Back on topic, is the advantage of a wagon with a rolla so nice it beats out T5 from having bikes? I have yet to try any nob bikers but cc with my regular 9 man squad is usually short and brutal against anything that isn't a dedicated cc unit (usually 1-2 rounds). Does the extra toughness help them take on things they normally couldn't or its it just extra insurance? (other than obviously making S8 guns non-instant death, which the wagon could protect them from i guess).

Bigchoppas are awesome i take them if i got points (meaning theyre the first thing i shave off if i need a few points somewhere). Yes, against random infantry you dont need it but bikers are NOT going against big blobs of infantry unless theres nothing left, they are going after Elites and Vehicles which Str7 on the charge is a HUGE difference. Sending that into a bubble of grotz or any race's equiv type unit would be a waste of points, and as we all know, any attempted dice can proove fatal to any type of model if the dice can be thrown at all. Ive seen 30 grotz take out a 5man terminator group...it happens....
Also, having a Bigchoppa means you dont hurt yourself if you choose to go the Kombi Scorcha route - which is way better than people give it credit for as an anti-charger. You already lost the +1 attack anyway for having a 2h weapon.

As for the OP topic:

I generally stay away from nobz in wheelz because they are only SLIGHTLY better than MANz in terms of mobility after those wheels die, and arent much cheaper. Unless you are taking strictly naked nobz (which would be...weird) they still run about or slightly less than MANz and lack the 2+ armor.
To me, the ability to run/fire overwatch doesnt outweigh the 2+ armor. If anything its a scare tactic, because 4+ is easy to get by anyway so unless theyre dangerously close people will ignore them except with the few guns that can pen the 4+. MANz will draw the entire army's fire whether theyre in range or not because if they get in range bad stuff happens lol.

Every battlereport ive seen/read that had non-biker nobz the nobz seemed to be a lackluster missile rather than an elite. Every game, they took out something, but then either died or had the same issue as MANz - cant get to the next target fast enough. MANz atleast will freak them out.

The extra toughness makes a big difference not just for the ID part but it makes random infantry wound on 5s instead of 4s. Big deal when it takes off another ~25-30% possible wounds needing saves for.

and the bikes look way cooler. take the bikes.

 g0atsticks wrote:
and the bikes look way cooler. take the bikes.

Can't argue that the bikers look sweet . Converting them is kind of a pain, mostly mine are just the regular bikers with nob arm swaps and extra shoulder armor.

The additional nob bits from boyz boxes also fit biker legs perfectly.

 Che-Vito wrote:

1750 Waaagh! wrote:
Ork Boyz
- 18 Boyz, 1 Nob
- Bosspole, Ard' Armor
- Trukk w/ RPJ

My friend's 1750 list, uses both bikes and battlewagons. In his 2,000 point list, he simply adds 5 bikes.

This unit is illegal I'm afraid. Unless they got FAQed recently, Orks still have an older codex that requires them to fit into any transport they take.

< Taken by the void dragon. >

 Dr.Painboy wrote:

 g0atsticks wrote:
and the bikes look way cooler. take the bikes.

Can't argue that the bikers look sweet . Converting them is kind of a pain, mostly mine are just the regular bikers with nob arm swaps and extra shoulder armor.

Yea, they are a pain to customize. This is my picture accurate Wazdakka model and it took me about a week to build, not including the paint job i mean to BUILD it. I am dreading the task i gave myself to make nob bikers of equal awesomeness.

 Jidmah wrote:
The additional nob bits from boyz boxes also fit biker legs perfectly.

I have a couple of those nob torso in the bitz box. Their shoulders seem to be wider/taller than the bikers' though so the handlebar arms don't line up (and my conversion skills aren't that awesome). Is there an easy fix to get around this? They would certainly look more nob-y?... nobish? than the regular biker torsos.

 Che-Vito wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:

 Che-Vito wrote:

1750 Waaagh! wrote:
Ork Boyz
- 18 Boyz, 1 Nob
- Bosspole, Ard' Armor
- Trukk w/ RPJ

My friend's 1750 list, uses both bikes and battlewagons. In his 2,000 point list, he simply adds 5 bikes.

This unit is illegal I'm afraid. Unless they got FAQed recently, Orks still have an older codex that requires them to fit into any transport they take.

The Codex itself does not specify unit size required to purchase a transport, but I know that according to old FAQs, you are absolutely correct. Good catch.
Can anyone confirm that this is still the case?

The codex limits the size of Mobz to take a dedicated transport. Look in the back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
To OP

The only benefit of Reg. Nobz over BikerNobz is that they can climb levels and enter buildings and such. But so can Boyz and MegaNobz. I love DeffRollas as much as the next guy but the T5 is just too nice. My MegaNobz are getting ID'd by Lascannons but Bikers only take a wound. AND FNP works up to Str. 10. Tau no longer have as much of that to throw around BtW so yay.

My MVP's are always either 5 MegaNobz with Grotsnik in a Trukk with RR or my BikerNobz with BikerBoss. I take both at 1500+.

 Dr.Painboy wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
The additional nob bits from boyz boxes also fit biker legs perfectly.

I have a couple of those nob torso in the bitz box. Their shoulders seem to be wider/taller than the bikers' though so the handlebar arms don't line up (and my conversion skills aren't that awesome). Is there an easy fix to get around this? They would certainly look more nob-y?... nobish? than the regular biker torsos.

The three bike box itself comes with two torsos for nobz (one identical to one from the boyz box, one different), and if I remember correctly, you have two arms for grabbing a handle, if the warbiker arms don't fit the nob torso in the first place. I have one nob biker grabbing the handles with both hands, so shoulder width is not a problem.
In addition, there are some slugga arms from various boxes (AOBR, nobz, boyz) which can "lock" into a bike handle, so it looks like the ork is steering while holding the slugga.

Otherwise, think like an ork: If you have the choice between steering and taking your big choppa with you, would you leave your big choppa at home?

 Jidmah wrote:

Otherwise, think like an ork: If you have the choice between steering and taking your big choppa with you, would you leave your big choppa at home?

You have given me a modelling idea - they would bring a grot, to steer.
Perhaps a blindforded one, they don't want them to point it the other way!

The Bikerboss, could use his attack squig to drive!

Going back to topic, I love to tank shock - so much so my non-tanks do it. Often providing new cover to run through.
If only bikers can do that, vector strike / hammer of wrath in new codex pls.

My trukks never survive turn 1. Even if i have battlewagons with MANz inside or something, people always go for the trukks first as they are 1hit-kills 90% of the time. So i have yet to tankshock with anything except a deffrolla'd BW that managed to live long enough.

I know part of my issue is my dice though. I currently use the GW dice, and i am 100% convinced they are rigged to roll 1s. In 8 months, i have had 3-4 games where i rolled AWESOME (the other side of the dice btw), and i have lost count how many of i cant pass a 2+ to save my life. My last game i had Ghazzy and he died to 6 Shoota shots...yes....6 Str4 wounds killed his 4wound butt because i rolled 4 1s out of 6 dice.
That being said im willing to try trukk boyz again when i finally get my new dice from amazon (shipped to wrong address, waiting on old neighbor to send it to me )

Back on topic (since i drifted a bit)

The grot steering the bike would be hilarious, but unless youre good at sculpting tiny arms/hands how would you do that? I could do it with Super Sculpy, but not Green Stuff (too sticky to me). And all my Sculpy stuff is in a storage vault atm since i am stationed in korea for the time being

EDIT: After saying that about vehicles i threw together a list to try something. I am still trying to coop up a 1999 point list for a local friendly tourny (no prize just an excuse to get all of us together) so this kinda gave me the points to try this out on:



It seems viable. Granted, at a lower point level it wouldnt work unless you shaved some lootas or swapped to normal warboss. The nobz still seem like a bit of a risk though, but im gonna run it and find out that way rather than mathhammering it.

The grot box has one grot holding a stikkbomb with two hands, I think converting that stikkbomb ti a bike handle is really easy.

Btw: Bikes already have hammer of wrath. Sadly it's at unmodified strength which is quite unspectacular for both nobz and warbikers.

Atleast for Nobz its Str4, so if you go against random infantry it still does something. I almost always forget about it though.

It will never make the difference between beating a unit and losing to it though. Nobz, especially the super-tough biker variant, tend to either stomp all over a unit or die a horrible death due to force weapons, high strength or ridiculous amounts of attacks at S5-6. It's never close enough for S4 AP- attacks to make a difference.

i'd have to concurr that. My bikernobz never have stalemates in combat. They ALWAYS absolutely crush the opponent, or die a horrble death because i failed a leadership and got sweeping advanced (which i hold up there with Challenges as the dumbest rule ever. Groups with an IC atleast should be unable to be sweeped if any).

The only time i had them stay locked in combat was when a group of Wraiths charged me. Kombiscorcha wounds dont count towards total wounds, but it lowered their numbers enough so we ended up both causing 4 wounds in the end....he had 1 wound on 1 model left >.< that sucked lol.