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For instance, a Leman Russ rams the side of a battlewagon that has a deffrolla. Could the battlewagon then do anything against the Leman Russ on the Orks turn? (assuming the 'wagon lives of course)

From what I read, the rules don't explicitly say you have to move or even hit with the front of the vehicle. So, does that mean you could "declare" you're moving full speed, not actually move, and still count as a 5 strength ram (which would really only be for using the deffrolla in this case)?

If it's avaible to move and not imobilized i belive you can. as you declare where you move towards. it would first count as str 5 indeed but + d6 str 10 due the deffrollah

Actually, after re-reading, in the first paragraph under tank shocking it says you must move at least combat speed.

It also says just pivoting isn't sufficient because you aren't moving. So, does this mean you must be able to move at least .00001 inches?

I'm leaning towards this means you can't tank shock in this case. Can anyone confirm?

The wording on page 85 appears to imply that you do have to use the front of the vehicle, as you move it "straight forwards" after turning and aiming it.

So I would say no if you are side on, as you cannot turn the tank to face the correct direction first.

At least that's my reading of it.

No, you must move at cruising speed to ram.

not quite true Kevin, you must declare that is the speed you intend to move at, but if you hit something before that you stop. So that is no restriction.

Jangustus wrote:
not quite true Kevin, you must declare that is the speed you intend to move at, but if you hit something before that you stop. So that is no restriction.

No - "Ramming is a special type of Tank Shock and is executed
the same way, except that the Tank must move at Cruising Speed"

The declared bit is for tank shocking only. Well, you still have to declare your movement inches in a ram but you are required to move over 6" before you can ram.

With Ramming you're required to move cruising speed before ramming, this is so that things like Heavy vehicles can't ram.

 Kevin949 wrote:

Jangustus wrote:
not quite true Kevin, you must declare that is the speed you intend to move at, but if you hit something before that you stop. So that is no restriction.

No - "Ramming is a special type of Tank Shock and is executed
the same way, except that the Tank must move at Cruising Speed"

The declared bit is for tank shocking only. Well, you still have to declare your movement inches in a ram but you are required to move over 6" before you can ram.

With Ramming you're required to move cruising speed before ramming, this is so that things like Heavy vehicles can't ram.

Oh man, I completely overlooked that. Since the Russ is Heavy now, it couldn't ram at all, making this situation impossible, doesn't it?

Ah yes, forgot you were talking about a russ initially.

Yep they can't move at cruising speed, so can't ram. But can tank shock though.

Can you quote a rule that states they must move at least 6" before striking an enemy vehicle? I can see where it says they must move at cruising speed but this does not actually put on a distance till the impact just how far they must declare they are going to move. The strength of the hit is even based off each 3" which does not include a caveat that it must be over 6".

 Gravmyr wrote:
Can you quote a rule that states they must move at least 6" before striking an enemy vehicle? I can see where it says they must move at cruising speed but this does not actually put on a distance till the impact just how far they must declare they are going to move. The strength of the hit is even based off each 3" which does not include a caveat that it must be over 6".

It's in the rule you just quoted. They must move at least Cruising, which is more than 6".
If they hit a vehicle before that, they stop, meaning they have not moved the required speed.

But they only stop if the rammed vehicle does not explode.

Which would lead by your reasoning (if I have it correct), that a vehicle can ram something 4" away if it explodes it and carries on to say 10", but not if it doesn't explode? How does that work.

Surely you merely have to declare that you intend to move cruising speed, otherwise this odd situation occurs.

So the answer is no.

"To perform a Tank Shock, first, turn the vehicle on the spot to face the direction you intend to move it and declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move, up to its maximurn speed. The vehicle must move at least Combat Speed."

"Ramming is a special type of Tank Shock and is executed the same way, except that the Tank must move at Cruising Speed."

These are the two rules with the second referencing the first. Combining the two we get

"To perform a Ram, first, turn the vehicle on the spot to face the direction you intend to move it and declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move, up to its maximurn speed. The vehicle must move at least Cruising Speed."

Since the first is declaring the speed you are moving at you are moving at Cruising Speed even if you don't move over 6".

By your reading of this then as long as I ring a tank with infantry it can't Tank Shock out as it is not moving as long as I keep them in contact with the hull for each direction they can turn. Do you think that is what they wanted?

in 5th ed there wasn't any sort of limitation on ramming distance. from what I recall.

You could ram something 1" away, blow it up, go through it to the 13" you declared (red paint job) hitting another vehicle or 5, blowing them up on the way.. then still disembark and assault with the boys.


It was... awesome


6th really messed up rollas, can't assault after you ram, can only snapfire when ramming, must move crusing speed 6"+ before you can ram something.

More or less if you pivot your tank and find the distance is less than 6" then you can't even declare a ram, you can only declare a tank shock (to the unit closer than 6"....)

I would argue that you could ram something farther than 6" away if there was infantry in the way whom failed LD from tank shock, or died trying a death or glory/moved aside etc.

You would ;

1. declare ram on tank 8" away

2. Stop when you contacted infantry that were in the way, do death or glory etc

3. if the vehicle didn't die to death or glory, continue moving thru to ram and resolve

If during step 2 the unit in your way is a vehicle (that was closer than 6") then you are SOL. as you can't tank shock the vehicle and must stay 1" away. ..

Gravmyr wrote:By your reading of this then as long as I ring a tank with infantry it can't Tank Shock out as it is not moving as long as I keep them in contact with the hull for each direction they can turn. Do you think that is what they wanted?

This is incorrect - the vehicle can Tank Shock out, as the unit doesn't stop the vehicle's movement, it's moved out of the way instead. So you declare moving at whatever speed, move the unit to the side as usual then complete the move.
Ramming another vehicle on the other hand, or reaching impassable terrain or a building, explicitly stops the vehicle.

Some other points to make on this -
1) You can't make a Tank Shock or Ram in the direction of a vehicle/building/impassable terrain you're already in contact with.
2) If a vehicle/building/impassable terrain piece is within minimum Cruising Speed distance, you can't Ram in that direction - but you can declare a Tank Shock at enough distance to bring yourself to that piece and thereby stop when you reach it. This would of course Tank Shock any non-vehicle units on the way.
3) ...not being able to Ram with Heavy vehicles seems *REALLY* silly to me. But hey, that's RAW for you.

skyfi wrote:I would argue that you could ram something farther than 6" away if there was infantry in the way whom failed LD from tank shock, or died trying a death or glory/moved aside etc.
You would ;
1. declare ram on tank 8" away
2. Stop when you contacted infantry that were in the way, do death or glory etc
3. if the vehicle didn't die to death or glory, continue moving thru to ram and resolve
If during step 2 the unit in your way is a vehicle (that was closer than 6") then you are SOL. as you can't tank shock the vehicle and must stay 1" away. ..

This is exactly correct and RAW.

 Gravmyr wrote:

"To perform a Ram, first, turn the vehicle on the spot to face the direction you intend to move it and declare how many inches the vehicle is going to move, up to its maximurn speed. The vehicle must move at least Cruising Speed."

Since the first is declaring the speed you are moving at you are moving at Cruising Speed even if you don't move over 6".

You declare the number of inches, you don't declare "cruising speed".
If you fail to move more than 6", then you've failed to move cruising speed.
Declaring more than 6" does not mean you've moved cruising speed.

If the infantry are in base contact with tank then it cannot move at least Combat Speed. In the end if stopping before moving 6" during a Ram is not moving Cruising Speed despite your declaration then being in contact with the infantry and not moving is not moving at least Combat Speed so no Tank Shock out of the ring. Since you could not move then there was no Tank Shock and no moving through the unit of infantry or moral check.

Again, that is not understanding that tank shocking and ramming are executed differently. With a tank shock you can move despite infantry being in base.

If you are not moving and already in base contact how are you moving at least combat speed?

Because you dont stop when tank shocking, unlike with ramming. Again, they are written very differently, and ramming has an additional condition on how it is resolved that tank shock doesnt.

This still doesn't answer my question if moving less than 6" for a Ram means not moving at Cruising Speed then If you have moved 0" for a Tank Shock you are stationary and not moving at Combat Speed. Therefor you could not have even begun the Tank Shock and cannot continue to move through the enemy models as you are not in fact Tank Shocking.

Go back and reread Tank Shock. The presence of an enemy non-vehicle unit doesn't stop a Tank Shock move. You temporarily halt it to resolve the Tank Shock, but once that's done, the move continues.
This is NOT the case with vehicles, buildings or impassable terrain which is why Ram works differently.

You are in contact correct? Yes.

A unit being Tank Shocked must take a Moral Check as soon as the Tank comes into contact with the unit? Yes.

You must move a minimum of Combat Speed? Yes.

Have you moved a minimum of Combat Speed before you came into contact with the unit? No.

Since the Tank has not moved a minimum of Combat Speed is it Tank Shocking? Per your statement that the minimum movement is required for a Tank Shock/Ram to take effect therefor the tank has not moved and has not met that requirement.

If the Tank is not Tank Shocking then is the unit required to take the Moral Check or move out of the way? No.

It doesn't matter if the tank is required to stop for the Ram as the Tank has not met the requirement of moving Combat Speed to Tank Shock. Your stance is saying that it doesn't matter that the Tank has not moved for the Tank Shock because it is planning on it but it does matter in the case of Ramming. The stance that the minimum distances is a requirement is what keeps the Tank from Tank Shocking out of the ring as it cannot meet that requirement.

Reread Ramming, it does not tell you to stop the Tank when it contacts another vehicle it states "Units other than vehicles in the path of the Ramming Tank are Tank Shocked as normal, but if the Ramming Tank comes into contact with an enemy vehicle (not a building), resolve the collision as follows."

 Gravmyr wrote:
Reread Ramming, it does not tell you to stop the Tank when it contacts another vehicle it states "Units other than vehicles in the path of the Ramming Tank are Tank Shocked as normal, but if the Ramming Tank comes into contact with an enemy vehicle (not a building), resolve the collision as follows."

Did know this bit, but perhaps screwed up how I parsed my post. Regardless, reading the rest of it... well hot damn, you're right.
...to quote myself from earlier - that's RAW for you...!