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Heya,

I'm new to 40k (since last playing in 3rd ED), and would like to start a GK army. I was thinking along the lines of the following, any advice would be great, thank you!

HQ
* Inq Coteaz

Troops
* 5 man terminator squad
* 5 man terminator squad

Elites
* 10 man purifier squad

Heavy Support
* Landraider

I was thinking maybe dropping the purifier squad and making x2 10 man terminator squads instead of the x2 5 man terminator squads. Also maybe loosing Coteaz (still using that model though) and going with a regular inquisitor instead.

Any help is appriciated!

personally I am not a fan of Land Raiders in general and especially not for GK units.



In General, I find that land raiders are not really as durable as you think they would be. Sometimes it is simply impossible for the enemy to kill. However, if the enemy has any weapon that can hurt it, it will die rather fast.

Lance and Melta Weapons kill Land Raiders just as fast on the damage table as they did in 5th edition.
Gauss and Haywire weapons wreck Land Raiders due to hull points.

4 hull points is not a significant enough increase over the 3 of a Rhino, and it is significantly more expensive.
AV 14 does protect you from some weapons, but does little or nothing to protect you from other weapons.

A Land Raider is not really bad as much as it is inconsistent. It depends on the enemy list. Did they bring anti-AV 14 stuff? well then the LR is dead on turn 1-2. Did they trade all of their meltas for plasma? Then your LR is an indestructible brick.




For GK specifically.

GK units are not close combat units. They are shooting units with above average combat ability. Because of this they are rather expensive. To make the most of GKs you need to make use of their power in both the shooting and the assault phase.

GK terminators are great as they can move and shoot at 24" very well. Lots of Storm bolters and the Psycannon is one of the best guns in all of 40k. GK units (any of them really) want to be on the board from turn 1 shooting away. Then on turn 5-7 they look for opportunities to assault weakened units or to take objectives.

GK terminators in a Land Raider are not able to make use of their power in the shooting phase. For their points, they are not all that great in the assault phase. Compare them to TH/SS terminators and see how much less combat power they have. By putting GK units in a LR, you are forcing them to only use their assault power. They have okay assault power, but it is a little weak for their points.



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Are you simply not listing upgrades on your units or are they not taking any?

Psycannons are a must. They are what make GK lists work. It really is one of the best guns in all of 40k. It is very versatile

Also, Purifers work really well with Halberds on all of the non-psycannon dudes.

Thanks for the response!

Just a few things, first, what do you mean by TH/SS Terminators? Second, with the right upgrades can GK terminators not be brilliant in assault? Or are they in effect just a shooty army then, that can if pressed, assault people too. I was under the impression after going into my local GW the other day that they are very good at it O_o

What do you think of the 5 man squad set up? Do you think 10 man squads work far better in general, no matter what the unit?

Re the Landraider; the only reason I put it int he list is because I can only remember playing in 3rd ED where zipping a group of Terminators across the board in a nigh indestructible vehicle then dropping them right into CC was a great maneuver, I understand that maybe in this edition it doesn't work as well as vehicles are just more squishy.

I haven't included upgrades on the list as I'm not that familiar with all the upgrades just yet. So much info to absorb I'm just trying to do it little bits at a time atm!

Thanks again for the help, please do keep it coming.

TH/SS is Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield.

GK terminators are 40 pts, the same cost as Space Marine Assault Terminators who can take Thunder Hammers and Storm Shields.


TH/SS terminators are very powerful in assault. They have AP2 weapons at S8 so they can deal serious damage. They have a 2+ save and a 3++ INV to make sure they live to INT 1 when they deal that damage.


Gk terminators are never going to be as good as TH/SS terminators are in the assault phase.
You can get S8 AP2 attacks (even S10 with Hammerhand not that you really need it). However, you do not have the 3++ inv save for protection, only a 5++
You can get a 4++ INV save with the Sword, but then you only have S4 AP3 attacks.
You can also take the Halberd for INT 6 fun, but then you have S4 AP3 attacks and a 5++ iNV.
You can take a single stave for a 2++, but it is only in combat and it is rather expensive as well.


GK terminators are not good enough in the assault phase to really take on other units that are strong in the assault phase. They will probably die to Assault Terminators.
What they have instead is a lot of variety. You can shoot units you can't beat in assault. You can assault units that you can't out shoot. That right there is the GK army's biggest strength.


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Terminators can work well in 5 or 10 man squads, it is a matter or preference.

5 terminators with a Psycannon. Maybe 2 hammers and the rest halberds or swords is probably what you are looking for.


In a 10 man squad you have some other cost effective options.

First off, you can always combat squad down to 2x5 if you feel the need.

Second, you can take Psybolt ammo or a Brotherhood Banner. Both of the upgrades have fixed costs, so they are only cost effective when taken on a 10 man unit.

10 Dudes, 2 psycannons, Psybolt ammo. Mix of nemesis weapons is probably best.

======================

On the Land Raider:

It is not so much that vehicles are more squishy, but rather that AV 14 often does not give you more protection than AV 12 or 11.

AV 14 makes you immune to some weapons. Auto cannons. Missiles, even Lascannons do not do a lot against AV 14 [even if they can hurt you, it is a small chance]

AV 14 adds basically no protection against Lance Weapons, Melta Weapons at half range, and anything that has automatic glancing hits.
[melta is less likely to Penetrate, but not by as much as you think based on the way 2D6 rolls are distributed]


This is what I mean by it being inconsistent. If the enemy is Imperial Guard with all Autocannons, then the Land Raider is never going to die. If you are up against a Dark Eldar list, with Lance weapons on everything, your land Raider is Scrap on the first turn.


For the cost of a single land raider, you could instead take 4-5 Rhinos/Razorbacks/Chimeras. For the same cost, the 5 Rhinos will generally last far longer and add a lot more to a list
[granted they fill a different role, add kill points and First blood ect. but the comparison still stands I think]


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If you have any old models, it might be a good idea to find someone who is willing to let you "proxy" a few games. Try out some units and equipment before you commit to building and painting anything.

I played GK for most of 5th and a while in 6th! I found the best unit EVER is Coteaz and a purgation squad with 4 psycannons. Roll both coteaz's powers on divination and let the hilarity ensue...

My wife has Grey Knights and we put together a pretty fun (for us) list that's as follows.

HQ:
Crowe

Troops:
5x Purifiers - 2x psycannons, 2x halberds, 1x daemon hammer
5x Purifiers - 2x psycannons, 2x halberds, 1x daemon hammer
5x Purifiers - 2x psycannons, 1x halberds, 1x daemon hammer, 1x staff w/ Razorback: assault cannon, storm bolter, and psybolt ammunition

Fast Attack
5x Interceptors - 1x Incenerator, 4x halberds

Heavy Support
Dreadknight - Heavy Incinerator, Nemisis Greatsword, personal teleporter

2 of the 3 squads of purifiers can be combined into 1 squad of 10 then combat squadded to put 4 psycannons into one group with either a halberd or a hammer for the last person and 3-4 halberds with 1-2 hammers in the other combat squad.

So far each game played with this list (around 1250 depending on upgrades) has been fun and challenging with out my enemy claiming terrible cheese... that is until I take out his Warlord after Crowe died during a challenge

I am personally thinking about getting two more boxes of grey knights to make 5 more interceptors and 5 more purifiers for completeness sake, maybe another dreadknight too.