Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

HQ
Primaris Psyker
- 70

Troops
PCS w. Vox
-35
2x Infantry Squad w. Vox & Meltagun
-130
1x Infantry Squad w. Vox & flamer
-60

Veteran Squad w. Grenadiers, vox, 3x meltaguns, power weapon & plasma pistol, autocannon
-165
Chimera w. extra armour
-70

Fast Attack
Devil Dog w. multi-melta
-135
Devil Dog w. multi-melta
-135

800pts

Any suggestions? I was going to replace one or both Devil Dogs with Valkyries/Vendettas but not entirely sure...

Hey what king of army are you wanting to make, attack,defence or anything else. Psykers are not always that reliable so you are a lot better having him and someone else if you want him in ur army. Also what will you be facing because that will help the decision for valks or devil dogs

I just want a general face-all-comers list tbh... Useful for any game and at least semi competitive while not just ruining the fun for the other player in friendlies! This list has won all 5 games I've played with it so far

as much as i hate to say it but swapping hellhounds with vendettas is a good way to go

 jbsnv wrote:
as much as i hate to say it but swapping hellhounds with vendettas is a good way to go

One vendetta and one valkyrie with missile pods.... gives you anti-tank and anti-hoard... then you could lose the chimera and mount the vets on one of them.

Also the more men you have in the sky the better if ur playing with not very experienced players.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also you will want to take a few different army lists so you can alter in depending on the opposition

£82 is a lot of money... I knew it would come to this also I don't like tailoring my lists to different opponents if I'm honest...

I know what you mean about the money but I plan what I want then begin to save ever we while.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also if you don't want to Taylor ur list then you will have to have a lot of different weapons, Melta's for tanks bolters, stubbers and flame for troops

You seems to lack long range anti-tank weaponry. A single autocannon will not cut it if you face someone with multiple vehicle, transport or otherwise. Even with meltaguns, your opponenet simply have to stay 12 inches away to negate your weapon, and forcing you to go out of cover and move forward.

Two devil dogs generally can deal with any vehicles...

Yes they can but what do you do when you are against flyers

In 800 realistically it'll only be one flyer, which means 2 multi-meltas, 3 meltaguns, a multilaser and an autocannon is likely to be enough!

Unless you're playing against my necrons. Then it's realistically three flyers...

But then you also have virtually nothing else to deal with on turn one, and when they come in I can deal with them one at a time.

That's why I like tailoring my army

But it's pretty easy to make a cheese list to take on a specific person's force... What is the real challenge is making a competitive, TAC list that is fun to play with, and against, and that can actually win against most standard lists. Plus in my gaming group, tailoring is considered foul play

If you are not going to Taylor ur army then what are the main army's you are playing against. Sm, dark angels, imperials guard , chaos?

Your list is not TAC, is just an unfocussed mess. You have 15 points spent on a vox network...for what? To ensure you'll get FRFSRF on one squad? Remember the PCS can only issue one order, and his orders are all lame. If you blob the squads, you don't need the third vox anyway. Ld8 is plenty for orders, especially ones that aren't game changing like FRFSRF. Ditch them, take guns.

Your infantry units are practically naked. A flamer? Why? Are they going to be near other light infantry? I see no way to get them across the table. A single melta on a BS3 target who doesn't have access to BID! is worthless. That won't threaten vehicles. It also has no way of being near a vehicle other than a land raider or rhino barrelling towards you...in which case it's too late.

The Vets are a mess. melta and AC...in a chimera? What's their role? You seem to have kitted them out for everything, whilst simultaneously making them over costed and pointelss. Carapase or chimera, not both. The power weapon is pointless too. If you're in CC, you're dead.

The two devil dogs are a nice idea...but do you really expect to see that much AV:14 at 800pts? Of course not. You'll occasionally see demolishers or LRBTs with a few predators around. You don't need to invest in two devil dogs, especially as they'll have no back up.

Finally the primaris psycher. Why? What does he do that a CCS can't do better. You get a 5+ DTW roll...that's it. A CCS gives you amazing orders and 4 BS4 special weapon slots too. The CCS is flat out better. You could have a great one if you didn't spend points by picking upgrades out randomly from the codex.

tl;dr
No long range threat. You're guard, you don't do well at close range.
No focus
Frivolous upgrades

While I agree with most of what you've said, I don't feel there was any need to be so rude with the way you said it!

If you're going to disagree, fair enough, but be pleasant please?

Anyway I'll attempt to justify some of my choices:
Ok vox network:
Primarily because in my games WITHOUT voxes (or similar) I find that i always fail a critical FRFSRF or incoming! when I need it. I understand that it's not much use, but it's saved me more than a few times.

The flamer because I had 5pts spare - not the best reason I know.

The two meltaguns because on average I should hit with one, meaning I have a good chance of popping another terminator or vehicle that comes close every turn.

The vets...
Carapace: for when the chimera gets popped?
Meltas/autocannon: my local meta is a mix of light and medium vehicles, so the autocannon is for when those light ones are still a while away, and adds to the firepower of the chimera. The meltas ensure that if a tank comes close, I can be fairly certain it will die.
The devil dogs: because they have worked well for me so far, and because I don't have a vendetta yet. Simple as that.
And the Psyker because biomancy works well in my local meta, and because there is only one player in said meta who has any kind of psychic defence. Sure, a company command squad is better, but you can't hide them in a 30 man blob, and my regular opponents always direct their anti infantry fire at the CCS first...

I appreciate the comments though.

Tactical_Genius wrote:
While I agree with most of what you've said, I don't feel there was any need to be so rude with the way you said it!

I was blunt, not rude. I was not insulting you in any way.

I find that i always fail a critical FRFSRF or incoming! when I need it.

You never need FRFSRF. All it does is slightly increase your damage output. If you spent those points on guns, you'd consistently have better damage output against a wider variety of opponents.
Incoming is pretty rarely used. If you fail you can still GTG which will give you the same bonus in area terrain or behind fortifications, but in your opponent's phase, thus not limiting your shooting.

The two meltaguns because on average I should hit with one, meaning I have a good chance of popping another terminator or vehicle that comes close every turn.

No, 2 will rarely be at the statistical average. It's called the law of large numbers for a reason. Only when you have many, many things will you get close to the statistical average: which is why guard is good. They can't bring so many guns. 2 shots aren't reliable.

Carapace: for when the chimera gets popped?

Too expensive for a 50% increase in survivability.

Meltas/autocannon: my local meta is a mix of light and medium vehicles, so the autocannon is for when those light ones are still a while away, and adds to the firepower of the chimera.

But why on the same squad? You've mixed your 12" range weapon with a 48" range weapon. They're unfocussed. You won't be in a position where you'll use both, meaning you're wasting one always.

The devil dogs: because they have worked well for me so far, and because I don't have a vendetta yet. Simple as that.

As anti-AV14...at 800pts? Why not take some artillery?

And the Psyker because biomancy works well in my local meta, and because there is only one player in said meta who has any kind of psychic defence.

Relying on getting powers isn't tactically viable. There's also no need for psycher defence against a PP, he's not a threat.

and my regular opponents always direct their anti infantry fire at the CCS first...

Hmm...I wonder why? Maybe because they know they're an amazing unit? They're protected very easily. A CCS in a chimera with camo-netting will absorb a ton of fire power. While gaining increased range on orders and manoeuvrability.

Fair enough to a lot of that
I'll continue my attempts to justify.
Also, please feel free to offer alternatives (I know you already have with regards to HQ).

Meltaguns/law of large numbers: maths is somewhat my specialist subject, so I'm well aware of this law. However, I'm still more likely to get one hit than anything else, which means more often than not, I WILL get one hit. Furthermore, I I include the statistical chance of getting TWO hits (25%), I should get one or two hits 75% of the time. I understand that in a given turn, game, or set of games, the numbers are unlikely to conform, but it's still better chance than no chance.

The carapace: it's saved my hide before, particularly against bolters and the like. I have and will again consider removing it for MOAR GUNS but I am rather fond.

Meltas/autocannons: you say that the mixed range is a problem? I disagree. If I took out the autocannon, then the squad would do virtually nothing until they got close. However, the autocannon means when the meltas are out of range, the autocannon continues to thunder. When the enemy tanks ARE within 12"/6" for the meltas, the autocannon doesn't have to stop firing! It has no minimum range! So long as it's not a land raider (which a devil dog will have already killed), the autocannon brings extra security. The reason it's on the vets is for BS4.

The devil dogs: mostly I haven't swapped for artillery because these are more adaptable. "ahh a land raider *bang*" "ahh some terminators *bang*" they are able to deal with the most elite units effectively and comprehensively, for 135 pts a pop. I understand about 70% of the dakka community hates these with a passion, but they've always worked for me, and I enjoy playing them.

Psyker: I don't need to rely because whatever I get, it's useful. The only reason I don't take a CCS (other than my reason above, which you have admittedly given a hard counter to) is because a) they seem a bit overkill in 800pts and b) some minor fluff reasons (which admittedly I failed to specify) - namely I don't think a senior officer would be tasked with leading a relatively small force such as those present in an 800 point game.

Again I appreciate the comments.

Quick question in addition to the inevitable refutal of my points:
Opinions on fitting Marbo into this?

at the very least you don't need a second Vox in a combined squad... it's useless and redundant.. no player would ever waste a focus shot on a dude with a vox... and if your getting pie plated.. its all over anyways


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ps.. marbo rocks.. I don't care what the naysayer naysay.. he's not just an insto-pie-plate.. he's an insto-pie-plate that can appear anywhere (claim may only be 99% accurate) that the enemy would be INSANE to ignore.. so would easily soak up at least a unit worth of fire...I've fielded him many times and he's only failed me (killed/ distracted far less points than he's worth) once.. (and I was loosing hands down anyways)

Yeah I love marbo... in the one or two games I've used him he's been a bombshell, and I can use him as a psychological weapon and I haven't only had one vox so that I can choose to un-combine the squads at deployment should I need to, I get where you're coming from though!

Tactical_Genius wrote:

The carapace: it's saved my hide before, particularly against bolters and the like. I have and will again consider removing it for MOAR GUNS but I am rather fond.

Typically you should pick one or the other, carapace or a chimera. And for the same points you could get a demo charge and meltabombs to compliment the meltaguns.

Meltas/autocannons: you say that the mixed range is a problem? I disagree. If I took out the autocannon, then the squad would do virtually nothing until they got close. However, the autocannon means when the meltas are out of range, the autocannon continues to thunder. When the enemy tanks ARE within 12"/6" for the meltas, the autocannon doesn't have to stop firing! It has no minimum range! So long as it's not a land raider (which a devil dog will have already killed), the autocannon brings extra security. The reason it's on the vets is for BS4.

If you load them with meltas, they need to be booking it towards the nearest tank most of the time. If you want a bunker with a bs4 autocannon, take a CCS in a chimera instead. Mixing both wastes one or the other, while tricking you into thinking it is balanced. Another place for the autocannons could be in the infantry platoon, as bring it down makes up for the lack of bs.

The devil dogs: mostly I haven't swapped for artillery because these are more adaptable. "ahh a land raider *bang*" "ahh some terminators *bang*" they are able to deal with the most elite units effectively and comprehensively, for 135 pts a pop. I understand about 70% of the dakka community hates these with a passion, but they've always worked for me, and I enjoy playing them.

I have actually been meaning to give these a try. They are in competition with vendettas, which means you won't hear anything positive about them, but they look fun.

Psyker: I don't need to rely because whatever I get, it's useful. The only reason I don't take a CCS (other than my reason above, which you have admittedly given a hard counter to) is because a) they seem a bit overkill in 800pts and b) some minor fluff reasons (which admittedly I failed to specify) - namely I don't think a senior officer would be tasked with leading a relatively small force such as those present in an 800 point game.

I have found that enfeeble plus FRFSRF can be hilarious. Also, iron arm can make him more capable in challenges to avoid STW.

Opinions on fitting Marbo into this?

He is a good pick. Most opponents don't deploy to counter him (why should they, he's only 65 points I think) so he definitely shakes things up a bit.

My rule of thumb is autocannons for regulars and Lascannons for vets. Has served me well in friendly games. If you do random missions and want a TAC list, then you need Heavy Support for the Big Guns mission. Trade up one Devil Dog for an Exterminator/Bolter Boat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Your vets do not need a vox. FRF/SRF for 4 guys is a waste. Incoming! wastes 2 Shooting phases (only 1 if you have a CCS with GBITF!). And Move!Move!Move! is not even worth talking about with MechVets . IMHO, the only orders worth taking on a Vet squad (or even a non-combined IS) are the CCS-only orders.

Oops that wasn't meant to go on them... :O
Ok I think I've had a look at the comments, I'm gna try and rewrite this a bit, and see what you guys think then.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
800pts Imperial Guard


••HQ••
>>Primaris Psyker - 70pts

••Troops••
>>Infantry Platoon - 285pts
>Platoon Command
4x flamers
- 50pts
>Infantry Squad
Meltagun
- 60pts
>Infantry Squad
Meltagun
- 60pts
>Infantry Squad
Meltagun
- 60pts
>Chimera - 55pts
>>Mounted Veterans - 175pts
>Veteran Squad
3x meltaguns
Lascannon
- 120pts
>Chimera - 55pts

••Fast Attack••
>>Vendetta - 130pts

••Elites••
>>Marbo - 65pts

Better?

(btw can we not turn this into a thread about marbo, because every guard thread I've seen usually just turns into a debate about him every time he is mentioned.