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Hey folks,

The 2013 Battle for Salvation Warhammer 40,000 Grand Tournament (4th annual!), taking place Columbus Day Weekend (October 12-13), is now open for early registration. Those who purchase tickets between now and June 1, 2013 will receive a $5 discount on their admission.

In addition to the GT, we'll also be hosting a 40k Skirmish Tournament on Friday, October 11, and a two-day Warmachine tournament (details still in the works). All in all, we have several thousand dollars of prize support that will be given out for a variety of honors, including Renaissance Man, Tournament Champion, Best General, Best Army, Best Single Miniature, Best Conversion, Best Sportsman, and Tournament Aces, Bracket Winners, and more.

Please see below for the basic details about the event. Registration and more information can be found at http://www.battleforsalvation.com.

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Start date: 10/12/13
End date: 10/13/13

Format: NOVA
Games: 7
Points: 1999+1
Players: 80
Round time: 2.5 hours
FOC: 1
Forgeworld: No
Fortifications: Bastion + ADL

Entry fee: $67 ($62 with early registration)

Venue: Palisades Mall
Address: 1000 Palisades Center Drive, West Nyack, NY

TO contact: battleforsalvationtourney@yahoo.com

Hotel discounts and on-site food (mall food court + many restaurants) are also available.

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Glad to hear it's happening again and looking forward to attending!

I'll toss my hat in the ring on lobbying for a swap to 1850 this year though, 2000 points just isn't needed anymore in my opinion. I feel like the argument in the tournament scene for it previously was that "things were on a more level playing field" at 2000 due to the additional room to build in, and some books potentially not having the points to work out a rounded list at 1850. I just don't think this is the case anymore, and on top of that 1850 is a tad quicker, and is turning into the "norm" with other events/the scene in general (Adepticon, NOVA 2013, and others).

Just my .02, but I'll be there barring some life disaster either way, it's always an awesome event and if you haven't attended yet, you need to!

I definitely hear what you're saying. I'm in complete agreement that the 2000 points level used to be necessary in order to allow people to take well-rounded lists and to balance certain codices. The need for this has certainly been reduced in 6th edition between the allies rules and the increased number of codex updates.

That being said, this is something we've discussed at length internally. In the end, we felt that subtracting 150 points generally amounts to just one unit per army and that this probably won't have a significant impact on game length. And with so many other events switching to 1850, staying at 2000 provides a tournament opportunity for those who prefer (slightly) larger games.

The BFS loves to give out Trophys. Past attendees will tell you that we give out lots of them. This year we have added a few more ways to win them. We will be adding winners tracs for Battle Points Champion this year. Along with Ren Man and Win Loss Generalship we will be adding a BP system for people who prefer that type of Tournament. So now you will have Win- Loss, Renman and BP Champion to play for. BFS will also be adding Trophy support for best Armies per Codex !

Much more Trophy support added this year.

Also a reminder that on friday before the GT, Fritz from fritz40k will be once again hosting a skirmish tournament for anyone coming into town early and wants to chill out to a fun afternoon of small skirmish 40k. Last year was incredibly fun and we hope to see even more players this year.

-ed

Glad to hear you guys are running again! I'll echo the sentiment that 2,000pts is too large and not neccesary for a diverse arny selection any more. Too many of my games last year ended because of time rather than because of a natural end - I know that Mike and I would have preferred to play our final to its natural conclusion rather than having to agree that 'this will be the last turn'.

I'd like to see it at 1500pts - this points level gives people some hard choices about what to put in their army, not to mention a more relaxed tournament environment where everyone is finishing their games.

While I'm not sure i am behind 1500, definitely will back Alex up about our final game.

Course that may just be a sixth Tyranid problem.

Anyone able, BFS is an awesome event in an awesome social setting with some really tough, but classy, competition. Worth going to!

 The Everliving wrote:
Glad to hear you guys are running again! I'll echo the sentiment that 2,000pts is too large and not neccesary for a diverse arny selection any more. Too many of my games last year ended because of time rather than because of a natural end - I know that Mike and I would have preferred to play our final to its natural conclusion rather than having to agree that 'this will be the last turn'.

I'd like to see it at 1500pts - this points level gives people some hard choices about what to put in their army, not to mention a more relaxed tournament environment where everyone is finishing their games.

I feel the game plays best at 1750-1850, but would love to give 1500 a shot. If the aim is to have a slightly different event for folks who prefer something other than 1850, 1750 or 1500 might indeed be an interesting test!

But hell I'll play at any value from 1500-2000 if it's BFS

Can't wait to go again, maybe this year Gonyo won't troll me round one. Though I'm probably over due for that since it didn't happen at Colonial.

 morgendonner wrote:
Can't wait to go again, maybe this year Gonyo won't troll me round one. Though I'm probably over due for that since it didn't happen at Colonial.

Oh it's happening again!

We've discussed a few different ways to increase the amount of time that players have to play their games without formally increasing the round time beyond 2.5 hours.

One of the things we're considering is speeding up the pairing process. Some games finish much earlier than others and getting the scores into the computer can be done within a few seconds of the score sheets being turned in. Once the brackets are set on Day 2, it's possible to determine many pairings after only a small number of games have been completed (the nature or the brackets means that many pairings are decided independently of one another).

If players finish their games before the round is over and the bracket dictates that they, as victors, will be playing one another in the next round, we may inform them before their round starts so that they can get to an empty table and begin choosing sides, determining warlord traits, deploying, etc. This can also be applied pre-bracketing (in a more limited way) when the win-loss combination pools become small enough.

Taking it even further, there's the possibility that we could even permit players with early pairings to begin playing out turns if they have ample time.

The second proposition is a bit more controversial. From an organizer perspective, I don't see round times as a way of maintaining fairness, but rather as a necessary evil to ensure a reasonable schedule. As a player, I'd rather see people finish their games (even if I don't get to). However, I imagine that some people may find it unfair that some games are permitted more time than others.

I would be really interested in hearing what you guys think about the idea.

I like it. If it gives people more time and more games get to run to their natural conclusion, rather than being ended by the clock, that's a manifest good in my book.

I would not mind games playing over as long as it is built into the schedule. What you need to avoid is games holding up the whole event because they are an hour behind and everyone else sitting there waiting.

This would be easier to do in the earlier rounds w/ NOVA style bracketing that ya'll use, b/c it only pairs on Win-Path, not on margin. As a result, as long as you could start pairing 1-0's with 1-0's, you'd be fine.

Things would get tricky after that, b/c people who won first, loss second, should be playing those who did the same ... not people who lost first, won second. The smaller the potential pairing pools get per round, the more difficult it would get, for the issue Breng brings up regarding everyone sitting around waiting for a few key games to finish so the pairings can function.

You could just stick with your 3 games/day, and add more time per round, and maybe less time IN BETWEEN rounds? If people had 3 hours ... but only 15 in between, the event would not go that much later (though, admittedly, it would go a fair bit later still). Players who can't finish games on time or who bring the wrong army with which to play in tournaments (ahem, points at self) would get less time to snack in between, but not at penalty to everyone else.

As long as I get to play my games to their proper conclusion I'll be happy.

2,000 pts will make that very difficult - the suggestions you're thinking of are good but it still doesn't address the fact that at the end of the day players are going to be expected to move around 2000 points of models in a timely manner. As someone who last year watched his opponent take 45 minutes to deploy 4 drop pods and take his first turn adding all the time in the world is not going to help...

Starting games early if both players finish is fine but that only works if both players want to start early. Grabbing food, taking a break etc will all get in the way of this.

Mike's already mentioned the inherent difficulty in pairing people in rounds 2 and 3.

Adepticon is running their friendly event at 1500 points this year - if I get to play in it I expect it to be a blast where the games finish naturally and not a marathon where I feel I'm grinding my way through it.

 The Everliving wrote:
As long as I get to play my games to their proper conclusion I'll be happy.

2,000 pts will make that very difficult - the suggestions you're thinking of are good but it still doesn't address the fact that at the end of the day players are going to be expected to move around 2000 points of models in a timely manner. As someone who last year watched his opponent take 45 minutes to deploy 4 drop pods and take his first turn adding all the time in the world is not going to help...

The issue here though is that if a player takes that long with their army dropping points does not change much. That is not to say 1500 points is not faster than 2k (I have my doubts about 1850 or 1750 really making a big difference though). That said a lot of things that take a long time at 2k (set up, pre-measurement, psychic powers, etc.) still take a long time at 1500.

Just a reminder for people to take advantage of the early signup discount.

- Also still discussing points value 1850 or 1999+1 (we are going with 1999 +1)

-ed

Quick question... will the new Codex: Space Marines be legal for BFS 2013? I think it is supposed to release in September?

 Kolath wrote:
Quick question... will the new Codex: Space Marines be legal for BFS 2013? I think it is supposed to release in September?

Kolath

yea 5- 6 weeks prior to the tournament is enough time to allow it.

-ed


Automatically Appended Next Post:
BTW we are going with 1999 +1 points