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I charged an Eldar transport w/ Eldrad and Fire dragons in it with 8 Scarabs. The transport was right on the edge of the board - actually the fins were hanging off. No way they could have deployed. I didn't manage to blow it up (only wrecked it) even w/ 13 or so pens so he picks it up takes off the flight stand and sets the vehicle slightly to one side of where it was. All of the sudden there is room to deploy.

I said no way they could deploy. He says maybe but the Vehicle couldn't have any part off the board so he had to move it b/c it was an illegal placement. He also said some of my scarabs were under the transport and had to be moved b/c you can't be under the skimmer when it wrecks b/c he has to remove the stand so they have to be moved. Then he started saying its only a game don't get so worked up.

I lost 13 to 11. That would have been Slay the Warlord for me and he would have lost line breaker. This is a league game so the pesron with the most points at the end get about $60.00 with less prizes for other places and painting. Also this league we are playing some warlord thing where you get points to spend on abilities. So he would have likely lost one of the upgrades on Eldrad.

What would you do?

I would post this in the general forums :-)

Ask the League judge to intervene and explain the situation to him. get a reversal.

 Mythra wrote:
Then he started saying its only a game don't get so worked up.

This single statement makes me feel like he knew he was doing something he couldn't.

Then, from my point of view (and iirc rules say a similar thing), units could not disembark the vehicle. Then it becomes wrecked, while "undisembarkable". He displaced it when removing the stand, but (again, from my point of view) embarked models are lost, since they could not disembark.

One simple final thought: true it is, wh40k is a game. "Only" a game... meh. A game (on board, on field, pen&paper, or any media) has its rules.
Exploiting the rules to the limit may be not nice to see, but is (shoud be) effective.
Bending, stretching or breaking the rules to gain any kind of advantage is cheating. And this can set up dangerous precedents.
Definitely, wishing the rules folloewd by both parties in the play is not "getting worked up".

From what you have explained it sounds like he was being unfair. You should have replied to him that yes it is only a game so don't try and rubbish your way to a victory.

Personally I hate the rule (I don't think they changed it in 6th?) that gives you option to take your vehicle off its mount when wrecked if you are able to. Should just be a blanket rule that you can't. I have had times where NOT taking my landspeeder off its base allowed a cover save for another vehicle, or vice versa, taking it off its base stops a cover save for an enemies vehicle.

Why did he move the transport to one side? If it's wrecked it should go back exactly where it was, just without the base. Otherwise he's clearly moving the transport to gain an advantage, which is cheating, no two ways about it. If it couldn't fit on the board it should be removed, his fault for putting it so close to the edge. In a friendly game I'd probably allow it, but not when playing for money!

Cheater...Cheater,Cheater,Cheater,Cheater,Cheater!

I agree with everyone above.. And talk to the TO - see what he says and just stand by that ruling. In the future - don't let them pull such blatant BS and make him pay for his attempted cheapness

Got screwed twice. He had his model placed illegally in the first place. Sucker is a poor sport that made you feel bad by making you seem like a poor sport.

Only 1 solution: you have you destroy everything he loves. Ruin his life and make him remember not to ever break the rules again, or else you get burned! Or just immediately call for a judge/ref/3rd party verification/rulebook citation and don't let the game progress until a judgment is made. Your choice.

 Mythra wrote:

The transport was right on the edge of the board - actually the fins were hanging off.

How did he manage to have fins off the board? I was under the impression that you could not move a part of the vehicle's hull to where it hangs off the board.

This is a tough situation.

In once sense, you would want to be friendly and let it slide.

This is what I would've said, "Ya, it sucks, but that's not how the game works. Lucky for you this is a friendly league match and this makes for a great learning experience for when the game really counts."

A similar situation happened to me once, I was playing a "friendly" game back in 5th edition, the old Dawn of War mission. Dude wanted to walk on his broadside battle suits. Chose to walk them into some area woods that were right at the table edge. He rolled snake-eyes for difficult terrain. I said, "Wow, that sucks, betcha learned your lesson there."

---

Conversely, when I notice myself slip up and my opponent gives me a pass, I always decline and accept the error of my ways. Why? Because I need to drill into my head what are bad moves. For several games I forgot to cast my psychic powers at the start of the turn. My opponent would often say, "Go Ahead" and I'd decline every single time. I never forget now.

(Although, in fun games I take the Scroll of Magnus, and you have to do that before casting Psychic powers, which I've been forgetting to do sometimes...)

Quite frankly, you shouldn't have charged the model until it was placed legally. Although the placement was performed by him, I'd say it was your responsibility to not play until everything was good. Read on, because it doesn't matter anyway.

When he took the transport off of the stand and laid it down it has to go back in the exact same position it was; not somewhere else. This was obviously wrong on his part. Even if the "fins" were off the board, this should have been possible to do.

However this part doesn't really matter because...

When the vehicle gets a wrecked result, the first thing to do is an attempt to disembark. You don't lay the model first, you disembark first. The disembark point is from the exit points. If the exit points are blocked, which sounds like they weren't due to placement of the scarabs under the vehicle, then you attempt an emergency disembark. If the model is surrounded (not that flight stand, the hull itself) then the emergency disembark fails and the models are destroyed. AFTER all of that is done you lay the model down.

Regarding moving the scarabs, I'm going to say that this was necessary. If your scarabs are in contact with the flight base underneath the model and the model has to sit on the ground, then the only real way to play this is to move the scarabs back the minimum amount necessary for the transport to sit on the ground while staying in base contact with the vehicle. Again, however, this occurs AFTER the disembark procedures are accomplished.

So, at the end of the day, what we have is a situation in which it's likely that he would have been able to disembark due to scarab placement *under* the vehicle and not actually blocking the doors. Which means we have two players in a game that are ignoring all of the relevant rules. As a league organizer, I'd let the game stand simply because it was both of your responsibilities to know how disembark rules work and could easily have been cleared up by referencing the BRB on the subject during game. Further, it means you've learned a valuable lesson in not playing further until the opponent clears up an extant issue.

Excellently stated, clively

You technically have him on two points- first his vehicle was technically not in play if any part of it is hanging off the board, therefore it would count as destroyed along with anything inside it. Secondly, others have described the correct sequence of emergency disembarkation which would also have netted you a destruction of the passengers (ASSUMING your scarabs were placed so as to prevent any model from disembarking). Good luck getting a judge to rule on anything this long after the fact though... Like clively said, it would have been better if you knew the rules ahead of time and could point out his rule-breaking at the time... But we all forget rules from time to time. Would this one result have allowed you to win the $60?

What would I do? Not play him again.
What would I have done? Not let your scarabs get into charge range of my transport.

In all seriousness though, everyone elder had pretty much covered it.

another thing you could have done is said ok, I'm picking up my scarabs so that you can place the wreck legally. Now I am placing my scarabs on the wreck because they technically cannot move, but I might have to adjust them for wobbly model syndrome.

Then politely tell him I let you slide with the illegal placement of the skimmer, or I didn't notice, so we have to adjust to play the game properly from this point.

It might make you sound like the same guy that may have been cheesing, but if he flips his lid you can get a good laugh about it. I'm just happy I generally don't run into players like this.

I find it hard to believe that there was nowhere for an emergency disembark. Since when you charge a wave serpent you charge the hull, not the base, which is just a marker to lift the tank off the ground. You had 8 scarabs, wave serpents are huge, even with their back hatch agaisnt the board edge, its unlikely you could have totally surrounded the entire thing to the extent that there is no place within 6 inches of the hull he could place eldrad and 5 fire dragons.

While he was trying to be a dick and wasn't familair with the rules, had you both playd the charge right, he would have been able to emergency disembark without a problem anyway and you would be in essentially the same situation.

 akaean wrote:
...is no place within 6 inches of the hull he could...

Emergency Disembark after Wrecked is limited to 3" (Page 80, top right corner), but otherwise I completely agree with you.

 akaean wrote:
I find it hard to believe that there was nowhere for an emergency disembark. Since when you charge a wave serpent you charge the hull, not the base, which is just a marker to lift the tank off the ground.

Of course, page 83 of the RB, bullet point under Skimmers and Measuring disagrees with this.

You had 8 scarabs, wave serpents are huge, even with their back hatch agaisnt the board edge, its unlikely you could have totally surrounded the entire thing to the extent that there is no place within 6 inches of the hull he could place eldrad and 5 fire dragons.

Scarabs are on a 40 mm base, not 25 mm. As such it is very easy to place 8 bases where a unit cannot emergency disembark, especially with a Wave Serpent.

Quanar wrote:

 akaean wrote:
...is no place within 6 inches of the hull he could...

Emergency Disembark after Wrecked is limited to 3" (Page 80, top right corner), but otherwise I completely agree with you.

Emergency disembark is up to 6" BRB pg 79. bottom right

 Lord Yayula wrote:

Quanar wrote:

 akaean wrote:
...is no place within 6 inches of the hull he could...

Emergency Disembark after Wrecked is limited to 3" (Page 80, top right corner), but otherwise I completely agree with you.

Emergency disembark is up to 6" BRB pg 79. bottom right

Not from a wrecked vehicle.

Read P.80.

^^ Yep.

Page 80, 2nd column.

Anything unable to disembark within 3" is removed as a casualty. Bear in mind that to disembark you need to be placed in contact with the hull first, then moved up to 3" away, so if the hull is surrounded, this is not possible.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

Quanar wrote:

 akaean wrote:
...is no place within 6 inches of the hull he could...

Emergency Disembark after Wrecked is limited to 3" (Page 80, top right corner), but otherwise I completely agree with you.

Emergency disembark is up to 6" BRB pg 79. bottom right

Not from a wrecked vehicle.

Read P.80.

Read P. 79

That is disembark out of a wrecked vehicle. Which specifies it is like normal disembark save you only move 3" instead of 6", emergency one does not have that restriction.

Emergency does allow you to move 6"

".. In this case the model can be placed anywhere in contact with the vehicle's hull and can then move as for a normal disembarkation." There is even an image bellow showing the 6" movement.

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

Quanar wrote:

 akaean wrote:
...is no place within 6 inches of the hull he could...

Emergency Disembark after Wrecked is limited to 3" (Page 80, top right corner), but otherwise I completely agree with you.

Emergency disembark is up to 6" BRB pg 79. bottom right

Not from a wrecked vehicle.

Read P.80.

That is normal disembark out of a wrecked vehicle.

Emergency does allow you to move 6"

".. In this case the model can be placed anywhere in contact with the vehicle's hull and can then move as for a normal disembarkation." There is even an image behind showing the 6" movement.

Did you read P. 80?

"The passengers must immediately disembark in the usual manner (see page 79), save that they must end their move wholly within 3" rather than 6 inches." (80)

Note is says "must immediately disembark in the usual manner" then restricts the usual manner to 3 inches, this applies to Emergency Disembarkation as well since that is how the models would have normally gotten out of the vehicle when they cant use the access point.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:

Quanar wrote:

 akaean wrote:
...is no place within 6 inches of the hull he could...

Emergency Disembark after Wrecked is limited to 3" (Page 80, top right corner), but otherwise I completely agree with you.

Emergency disembark is up to 6" BRB pg 79. bottom right

Not from a wrecked vehicle.

Read P.80.

That is normal disembark out of a wrecked vehicle.

Emergency does allow you to move 6"

".. In this case the model can be placed anywhere in contact with the vehicle's hull and can then move as for a normal disembarkation." There is even an image behind showing the 6" movement.

Did you read P. 80?

"The passengers must immediately disembark in the usual manner (see page 79), save that they must end their move wholly within 3" rather than 6 inches." (80)

Note is says "must immediately disembark in the usual manner" then restricts the usual manner to 3 inches, this applies to Emergency Disembarkation as well since that is how the models would have normally gotten out of the vehicle when they cant use the access point.

This does not apply to emergency disembark why would it? It is never stated, it says you must disembark on the usual manner but moving 3" instead of 6", if you use emergency disembark you aren't disembarking on the usual manner are you? I mean, really? you are arguing against an explicit picture regarding this?

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Read P. 79

That is disembark out of a wrecked vehicle. Which specifies it is like normal disembark save you only move 3" instead of 6", emergency one does not have that restriction.

The image on page 79 is not from a wrecked vehicle. It's an emergency disembark while the vehicle is still alive.

Emergency does allow you to move 6"

".. In this case the model can be placed anywhere in contact with the vehicle's hull and can then move as for a normal disembarkation." There is even an image bellow showing the 6" movement.

Actual rules on page 80 wrote:The passengers must immediately disembark in the usual manner (see page 79), save that they must end their move wholly within 3"rather than 6". If, even by performing an emergency disembarkation, some models are unable to disembark, then any models that cannot disembark are removed as casualties.

Normal Emergency Disembarks are 6". From a Wrecked vehicle (you know, the thing we're talking about) they're 3".

People refer to specific pages for a reason.

The picture shows a group of IG performing an emergency disembark from a Chimera, with the access point being blocked by Eldar Guardians. What the picture does not tell us is if the vehicle is Wrecked or not. If the vehicle in the picture is in fact Wrecked (which we have no way of ascertaining) then Yayula is completely correct. So Yayula, I pose this question to you - What is the status of the Chimera in that picture?

 Happyjew wrote:
The picture shows a group of IG performing an emergency disembark from a Chimera, with the access point being blocked by Eldar Guardians. What the picture does not tell us is if the vehicle is Wrecked or not. If the vehicle in the picture is in fact Wrecked (which we have no way of ascertaining) then Yayula is completely correct. So Yayula, I pose this question to you - What is the status of the Chimera in that picture?

Doesn't matter there are only 2 ways of disembarking.

Normal Disembarking where you disembark your 6" out of an access point and Emergency Disembarking which you do from anywhere on the hull and move 6" as well. Normal Disembarking is your usual manner.

The wreck states "...immediately disembark in the usual manner, save they must end their move wholly within 3" rather than 6"."

If you can't disembark on the usual manner so you go for emergency disembark. If it affected the emergency disembark it would state:

"The wreck states immediately disembark in the usual manner, save they must end their move wholly within 3" rather than 6" even when performing an emergency disembarkation"

 Happyjew wrote:
The picture shows a group of IG performing an emergency disembark from a Chimera, with the access point being blocked by Eldar Guardians. What the picture does not tell us is if the vehicle is Wrecked or not. If the vehicle in the picture is in fact Wrecked (which we have no way of ascertaining) then Yayula is completely correct. So Yayula, I pose this question to you - What is the status of the Chimera in that picture?

He is not correct as "the usual manner (see page 79)" includes ED, and therefore is limited to 3 inches.

The pic is irrelevant.

With an emergency disembarkation you place the model against any point of the hull and then move "as for a normal disembarkation". (pg 79)

With a wrecked vehicle, the "normal" disembarkation is has the limitation of 3".

If you can't make a "normal" disembark to within 3" you use the emergency disembark and then move "as for a normal disembarkation". I take this to mean 3".

The language is at worst slightly unclear, I'll grant you, but I'm leaning heavily to the ED as 3" and I use Chimeras a lot, so am likely to suffer from this.

Slightly ninja'd, but this is how I'd interpret the rule anyways.

I think I'll just not play him.

The game before this one we were playing for bits and I thought I had killed all his ML Space wolves so I didn't move my Doom them he insta killed it w/ a ML Space Wolf with no arms that I thought was a bolter. I could have easily moved out of LOS then he would have had to move and snap fire them to hit me.

The game before that one was a tournament and he rolled out flank for the warlord on the warlord traits. I knew he didn't like leaving anything in reserves so I asked do you have anything in reserves and he said I don't like reserves.

Well after I stomped him and he didn't have very much left I moved up to kill Eldrad(when it really only a farseer hiding in the ruins w/ 1 guy left in that sqaud) and then Eldrad outflanked w/ a transport full of fire dragons. Since I had moved up I had nothing to protect my Bastion from them and he blew it up. I had to turn around to go deal w/ them and when I pivoted my Rhino thru area terrain he said that counted for a diff. terrain test. I said Pivoting doesn't count only forward or backward movement counts. We got the TO he said roll off. I lost and then rolled and the Rhino got immobilized.

Anyway lost that one too. Had I realized he had Eldrad in reserve I would have left Coteaz to protect that corner/bastion and would have gotten shots at him w/ the Jokaero and PC servitors or he wouldn't have been able to be in Melta range of the Bastion. I wouldn't have had to turn around and been immobilized.

Another game I had sworn I had killed some Eldar w/ a crazy ML that is 8/3 ignores cover but all his guys in that squad look alike so he said I was wrong.

I like the guy IRL just in 40k I think he is a cheater.

In this case, a model can be placed anywhere in contact with the vehicle's hull and can then move as for a normal disembarkation.

Yayula, You seem to be forgetting this part of the Emergency Disembark rules. "Moving as for a normal disembark" in this case means you move 3" because that is the limit on the Wrecked chart for a normal disembark.