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From what I've read of the rulebook and FAQ's, Psyker powers such as Blessings and Maledictions are manifested at the start of your turn, simultaneously as units arrive from reserves, etc. Furthermore, it is up to the player to decide in which order to do all of these.

So my question is can Psykers use Blessings/Maledictions when arriving from a deepstrike?

For example, if i deepstrike a flyrant onto the board, can it immediately cast Endurance on itself before the technical movement phase begins?

From the rulebook FAQ:
Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement
phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves
rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose
turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per
page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

 insaniak wrote:
From the rulebook FAQ:
Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement
phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves
rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose
turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per
page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

the faq is pretty clear, now, the BRB was confusing with the whole "on the board at the start of the turn"
wording, but with the FAQ, it means yes you can cast your blessing as long as you choose to place your model before choosing to use powers

easysauce wrote:

the faq is pretty clear, now, the BRB was confusing with the whole "on the board at the start of the turn"
wording, but with the FAQ, it means yes you can cast your blessing as long as you choose to place your model before choosing to use powers

Just to clarify - this only applies when your not deploying out of a spore/pod ? In the case where you are deploying out of a spore or a pod, this counts as actual movement?

Actually it means the rolls for your reserves happen at the start of the turn, but the units dont move on until after all reserve rolls have been completed. which is no longer the start of the turn.

What the FAQ is stating is that you can choose to roll for reserves, then cast blessings, then move the models onto the board or cast blessings, roll for reserves and then move models on to the board. The rulebook is clear that "unless stated otherwise, a unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from reserve" bold bit on page 125

ItsPug wrote:
Actually it means the rolls for your reserves happen at the start of the turn, but the units dont move on until after all reserve rolls have been completed. which is no longer the start of the turn.

What the FAQ is stating is that you can choose to roll for reserves, then cast blessings, then move the models onto the board or cast blessings, roll for reserves and then move models on to the board. The rulebook is clear that "unless stated otherwise, a unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from reserve" bold bit on page 125

MMm confused, Start of the turn though is not start of the phase, the manifestation of these powers are at the start of a phase? Can't think of any off the top of my head, but sure there are abilities which apply to the beginning of a turn

 insaniak wrote:
From the rulebook FAQ:
Q: Blessings are manifested ‘at the start of the Psyker’s Movement
phase’ – does this mean they happen simultaneously with Reserves
rolls, Outflanking rolls etc and if so which is resolved first? (p68)
A: They do occur simultaneously – as such, the player whose
turn it is decides in what order these things occur as per
page 9 of the Warhammer 40,000 rulebook.

How is this relevant to the question? This says rolling for reserves happens at the same time as rolling for "start of the turn" psychic powers.

Both of those things happen before moving reserves onto the board.

GW has sufficiently clearly defined "start of the movement phase" and "start of the turn" as being synonymous. That have not established to my satisfaction whether or not models actually moving on from reserve is still "start" or not.

Either way, you certainly cannot use blessings and maledictions by a model arriving from reserve that turn, that would contradict the prohibition ItsPug quoted (and any "start of movement phase" vs. "start of turn" messiness is resolved by the FAQ).

Whether you could move a unit on, then bless that unit, is not entirely clear to me; my opinion is "no", I know others differ.

I believe units arriving from Reserve do so at the start of the movement phase; the Reserve rules are clear that they must move on before any other units move in the Movement phase, after all.

As for the original question, the psychic rules specifically state that a psyker can’t cast blessings or maledictions the turn it enters from reserve.

No. Pg 67, third paragraph..

No,you may not.

What the FAQ allows you to do is cast Scryer's Gaze before you roll for reserves.

No blessings or maledictions the turn you arrive, as they need to be cast before you 'move' onto the board.

You can, however, chose to see what's going to be coming in before you cast your spells though.

So, to clarify, any psykers coming in from reserves cannot cast a psyker power, however, that doesnt hinder ANOTHER psyker already on the board from casting a blessing on the incoming reserve unit?

Yes, that is the situation that the FAQ that insaniak quoted covers.

 Ghaz wrote:
Yes, that is the situation that the FAQ that insaniak quoted covers.

That and making the Number 6 Power in the Divination table actually do something.

 Adamantium wrote:
So, to clarify, any psykers coming in from reserves cannot cast a psyker power, however, that doesnt hinder ANOTHER psyker already on the board from casting a blessing on the incoming reserve unit?

No.

A Psyker coming on from reserves cannot cast a power that must be cast at the start of the movement phase.
A Psyker already on the table can cast a power that must be cast at the start of the movement phase on another unit which is already on the table
A Psyker already on the table cannot cast a power that must be cast at the start of the movement phase on another unit which is coming on from reserves that turn

This is because the power can be cast either before rolling for reserves, or after rolling for reserves, but must be cast before moving units onto the board from reserves.

ItsPug wrote:
A Psyker already on the table cannot cast a power that must be cast at the start of the movement phase on another unit which is coming on from reserves that turn

This is because the power can be cast either before rolling for reserves, or after rolling for reserves, but must be cast before moving units onto the board from reserves.

Incorrect according to the FAQ that's already been quoted in this thread. Units come onto the board from reserve at the start of the turn.

 Ghaz wrote:

Incorrect according to the FAQ that's already been quoted in this thread. Units come onto the board from reserve at the start of the turn.

That's unrelated to what was quoted. What was quoted is that reserve rolls and "start of turn" psychic powers can be done in any order.

Moving reserves on comes after that.

Wrong. Moving reserves onto the table is done at the beginning of the turn as well since you have to move them before you can move any units that are already on the table.

Moving models does not mean it's 'the middle of the movement phase' any more than shooting makes it the 'middle of the shooting phase'.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mannahnin wrote:


As for the original question, the psychic rules specifically state that a psyker can’t cast blessings or maledictions the turn it enters from reserve.

...and this^^ to also. page 67 BRB

 DarknessEternal wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Incorrect according to the FAQ that's already been quoted in this thread. Units come onto the board from reserve at the start of the turn.

That's unrelated to what was quoted. What was quoted is that reserve rolls and "start of turn" psychic powers can be done in any order.

Moving reserves on comes after that.

Moving models on from reserves is part of rolling for reserves. It's not a separate step.

Ghaz wrote:Incorrect according to the FAQ that's already been quoted in this thread.

The FAQ does not address units moving onto the table.

Ghaz wrote:Wrong. Moving reserves onto the table is done at the beginning of the turn as well since you have to move them before you can move any units that are already on the table.

Unsupported assumption; your logic does not hold. Merely being before other things that happen does not necessarily mean the step still constitutes the beginning of the turn, any more than the fact that it occurs after other things happen does not necessarily mean that it's NOT the beginning of the turn.

rigeld2 wrote:Moving models on from reserves is part of rolling for reserves. It's not a separate step.

It's explicitly a separate step in that it occurs subsequent to all reserve rolls for that turn.

So then it is your contention that things done "at the start of the movement phase" which are not blessing/malediction can be done by models currently in Reserve that will be coming on this turn?

So by your logic Pyrian, you've invented a phase that occurs before the Movement phase. My logic is fine. Yours on the other hand...

 DarknessEternal wrote:
So then it is your contention that things done "at the start of the movement phase" which are not blessing/malediction can be done by models currently in Reserve that will be coming on this turn?

No, as page 125 is quite clear "unless stated otherwise, a unit cannot charge, or use any abilities or special rules that must be used at the start of the turn, in the turn it arrives from reserve" blessings and maledictions are a type of ability that must be used at the start of the turn, but the rule on page 125 covers all special rules and abilities.

 Ghaz wrote:
So by your logic Pyrian, you've invented a phase that occurs before the Movement phase. My logic is fine. Yours on the other hand...

Its not a seperate phase, merely a seperate step, which the reserve rules make clear, you roll for all reserves, then move all reserves on. As such you would...

1) Roll for all units in reserve to see if they enter play, and for their board edge if outflanking
2) Move units entering from reserve onto the board
3) Move other units

The FAQ states that abilities which occur at the start of the turn occur at the same time you roll for your reserve rolls and outflanking rolls. Do we agree that you cannot cast a psychic power on a unit which has not yet entered play? Do we also agree that if you have moved a unit onto the board you are no longer at step 1? Therefore it is too late to be doing something simultaneously with the rolls to determine if your reserves arrive.

Is it still the start of the turn/Movement phase? Then according to the FAQ quoted above they all occur simultaneously. There is zero support in the rules that simultaneously means something other than 'at the same time'. Stop trying to put steps into the game where they don't exist.

It is by necessity that the entirety of the 'moving in from reserve' process take place at the beginning of the movement phase so that several units can move in from reserve in the same turn.

You move a unit onto the battlefield. It must then still be the beginning of the movement phase for you to move the second unit on as well, etc.

 Abandon wrote:
It is by necessity that the entirety of the 'moving in from reserve' process take place at the beginning of the movement phase so that several units can move in from reserve in the same turn.

You move a unit onto the battlefield. It must then still be the beginning of the movement phase for you to move the second unit on as well, etc.

That cannot be the case. Imagine if you have two units, a squad of Termagants outflanking and a Hive Tyrant, the player rolls his reserve rolls, both units come on, the player chooses to move on the Hive Tyrant first, now at this point according to your interpretation, it is still the start of the player's turn so he can freely cast blessings as he hasn't moved the other unit onto the board yet. This is obviously wrong, or do you disagree?

 Ghaz wrote:
Is it still the start of the turn/Movement phase? Then according to the FAQ quoted above they all occur simultaneously. There is zero support in the rules that simultaneously means something other than 'at the same time'. Stop trying to put steps into the game where they don't exist.

No, when you are moving the units onto the board it is no longer the start of the turn/movement phase. If you read the FAQ it states that the reserve rolls happen at the start of the turn. this does not happen simultaneously with moving reserves onto the board, see above for an example as to why.

Secondly if your interpretation was correct and moving units onto the board occured simultaneously with the reserve rolls and not after, then in my turn 2 I can choose to move all my reserved units onto the board without rolling as I choose what order simultaneous actions are carried out (as per page 9). Once I have the unit on the board it is no longer in reserve so I dont have to make the reserve rolls at all. Do you believe this is correct? otherwise you must acknowledge there are multiple steps in the procedure to bring a unit on from reserve.

ItsPug wrote:

 Abandon wrote:
It is by necessity that the entirety of the 'moving in from reserve' process take place at the beginning of the movement phase so that several units can move in from reserve in the same turn.

You move a unit onto the battlefield. It must then still be the beginning of the movement phase for you to move the second unit on as well, etc.

That cannot be the case. Imagine if you have two units, a squad of Termagants outflanking and a Hive Tyrant, the player rolls his reserve rolls, both units come on, the player chooses to move on the Hive Tyrant first, now at this point according to your interpretation, it is still the start of the player's turn so he can freely cast blessings as he hasn't moved the other unit onto the board yet. This is obviously wrong, or do you disagree?

Except that the psyker rules specifically state you cannot do that.

ItsPug wrote:
No, when you are moving the units onto the board it is no longer the start of the turn/movement phase.

False. All units arriving from reserve must move before the player is permitted to move any units already on the table (pg.124, 2nd column, 5th paragraph). Since the Movement phase has nothing that happens before voluntary movement then this must occur at the beginning of the turn/Movement phase unless your making up 'phases' or 'steps' that have no support in rules. Please try and provide rules that actually supports your position.

ItsPug wrote:
Secondly if your interpretation was correct and moving units onto the board occured simultaneously with the reserve rolls and not after, then in my turn 2 I can choose to move all my reserved units onto the board without rolling as I choose what order simultaneous actions are carried out (as per page 9). Once I have the unit on the board it is no longer in reserve so I dont have to make the reserve rolls at all. Do you believe this is correct? otherwise you must acknowledge there are multiple steps in the procedure to bring a unit on from reserve.

And please explain how this would allow you to bring a unit in from reserve when it hasn't passed it's reserve roll? It wouldn't. Your 'argument' makes no sense and doesn't support your position at all. Once again, please try to actually support your claims with actual rules. Page and rules quote will sufice.

 Ghaz wrote:
False. All units arriving from reserve must move before the player is permitted to move any units already on the table (pg.124, 2nd column, 5th paragraph). Since the Movement phase has nothing that happens before voluntary movement then this must occur at the beginning of the turn/Movement phase unless your making up 'phases' or 'steps' that have no support in rules. Please try and provide rules that actually supports your position.

Can you provide a rule that states this please? I ask because I cannot see any rule in the book that states the movement phase begins with voluntary movement, infact many things that occur at the start of the turn/movement phase have to happen before any models are moved, and compulsory movements such as fallback moves and movement of locked velocity fliers etc can occur after other units have moved voluntarily. In short I think you are imagining rules that aren't in the book, maybe that is where you confusion originates?

I am not makin up steps or phases, GW have created the steps themselves. The steps I talk about are supported by rules, you have a specific order (or steps if you prefer) in which to do things.

1)You roll for reserves at the start of the turn, "At the start of your Turn Two, you must roll a D6 for each unit being held in reserve" page 124, 2nd column, first paragraph, first sentence.

2) Then you move the units entering from reserve, "When Reserves arrive, the player picks any one of the units and deploys it, moving on from the table as described below" page 124, 2nd column, fifth paragraph, first sentence.

3) Then you move other units. "The player can then proceed to move his other units as normal" page 124, 2nd column, fifth paragraph, first sentence.

Can you roll for your reserves, move a unit already on the board and then move your unit on from reserve? No. so clearly we do have steps.

GW state that blessings happen at the start of the movement phase, which as per the FAQ they state happen simultaneously with reserve rolls, which, so we're clear, would be step 1 in the list above.

 Ghaz wrote:

ItsPug wrote:
Secondly if your interpretation was correct and moving units onto the board occured simultaneously with the reserve rolls and not after, then in my turn 2 I can choose to move all my reserved units onto the board without rolling as I choose what order simultaneous actions are carried out (as per page 9). Once I have the unit on the board it is no longer in reserve so I dont have to make the reserve rolls at all. Do you believe this is correct? otherwise you must acknowledge there are multiple steps in the procedure to bring a unit on from reserve.

And please explain how this would allow you to bring a unit in from reserve when it hasn't passed it's reserve roll? It wouldn't. Your 'argument' makes no sense and doesn't support your position at all. Once again, please try to actually support your claims with actual rules. Page and rules quote will sufice.

You state that reserve rolls and moving a unit onto the board from reserve happen simultaneously (at the start of the turn/movement phase), as per page 9 under exceptions if two things happen simultaneously the player whose turn it is gets to decide which happens first "when these things happen, the player whose turn it is decides the order in which the events occur" this is reinforced by the FAQ which states that the player whose turn it is, gets to decide whether to cast blessings or roll for reserves first as both happen at the start of the turn. Do you agree with this point?

As per page 124 you only roll a D6 for each unit in reserve to see if it arrives from reserve, I think we can both agree that you do not need to roll for a unit already on the board? Now, if as you seem to believe, this rolling for reserves occurs simultaneoulsy with moving the models on, then as the active player I can choose to do either action first. Once the unit has been moved onto the board it is no longer in reserve and so I no longer need to make the roll to determine if the unit enters from reserve.