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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/10 21:38:41
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Bloodthirsty Bloodletter
Odessa, TX, USA
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Pretty simple question.
Seeing as how all other Monstrous Creatures have access to Fearless - that I can think off the top of my head - and the Riptide doesn't...I suppose that means that the Riptide is the first Monstrous Creature in the game that can actually be sweeping advanced? Seems rather strange, personally, but the rules says 'wounds' and not models, and so if he loses a combat by 1 or so, he has to take a test?
I see nothing else that says he's immune, but thought I'd see if I'm interpreting this right to confirm it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/10 21:46:16
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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CleverAntics wrote:Pretty simple question. Seeing as how all other Monstrous Creatures have access to Fearless - that I can think off the top of my head - and the Riptide doesn't...I suppose that means that the Riptide is the first Monstrous Creature in the game that can actually be sweeping advanced? Seems rather strange, personally, but the rules says 'wounds' and not models, and so if he loses a combat by 1 or so, he has to take a test? I see nothing else that says he's immune, but thought I'd see if I'm interpreting this right to confirm it. Nemesis Dreadknights do not have Fearless. Until now, it was the only MC without it, however it does have Fearless' little brother - ATSKNF. But to answer your question if it does not have Fearless (or a special rule similar) yes, it must take a Morale test or fall back (and possibly be swept).
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/10 21:47:13
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/10 21:49:56
Subject: Re:Tau Riptide and Assault
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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Since the Riptide doesn't have fearless, it can indeed be sweeping advanced. So make sure you keep it out of assault range unless you know you can win.
Ninja'd
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/10 21:51:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/10 21:51:30
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Bloodthirsty Bloodletter
Odessa, TX, USA
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Thought so. Thanks for the clarification!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/10 21:58:06
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Calm Celestian
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I never actually thought about that, that completely sucks.
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"Suffering is Faith, Faith is Strength.
Generations have suffered with the same devotion that we can offer but once. Still, our Faith leads us through these dark times like a beacon. It will guide us to triumph over these abominations. Either by breaking them upon us like waves against a limitless, golden peak or by thrusting through them like the spear of the Immortal Emperor Himself." - Cannoness Aoife, Order of the desert rose #Yesallwomen
Just finished my second album: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptvBO4vwb-A |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/10 22:22:16
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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If your Riptide gets into Assault, you're doing Tau wrong Although i haven't actually read the book yet--maybe there's a killer CC loadout for the MC (who'da thunk??)
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/10 22:26:40
LVO 2017 - Best GK Player
The Grimdark Future 8500 1500  6000 2000 5000
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/11 02:23:54
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Trustworthy Shas'vre
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Hm. If Ripetide isn't Fearless, does that mean that taking his Missile drones is a veritable death sentence?
Also: Riptides are monstrous creatures, so can smash in assault and all that nice stuff. Not gamebreaking, but certainly unexpected.
I have a question though:
Is the Thrust move in Assault phase prohibited from being a charge? Because the Nova Reactor and Warlord Trait can increase your thrust move: does this also increase assault range?
Because that would mean that you can nova-charge your ripetide, assault potentially 24" and smash unsuspecting vehicles or independent characters....
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/11 02:25:54
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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A thrust move is a special type of move in the assault phase available to Jet Pack Infantry. It is different than declaring a Charge.
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LVO 2017 - Best GK Player
The Grimdark Future 8500 1500  6000 2000 5000
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/11 12:27:50
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun
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from what im being told, the Riptide is also not a character. Meaning it IS the first MC that is unable to challenge things.
Also, really the Dreadknight isnt fearless either? I have a few faces to punch in then...dirty rat cheaters...lol not literally but that has changed the balance in a few games because it was "fearless" and being friends i just accepted it.
If it was a character, combat wouldnt be as bad as it could Smash and hope to 1shot whoever its facing thus evening or winning the combat depending on your saves and how many wounds the enemy had.
But i see your fear bout sweeping advances. I play Tau as allies to my Orks and i bought a riptide (still in the mail with my dex of course) because i heard it was cheap and very deadly..plus it looks cool so why not lol.
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An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/11 12:41:35
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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The Last Chancer Who Survived
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Well, looks like I'll be casting Hallucination on the Riptide then!
1-2: It gets pinned, and can only snap shot in it's next shooting phase.
3-4: It is reduced to only being able to move for a turn.
5-6: Whacks himself/his drones. This could cause him to break if he kills his own drone
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/11 12:46:34
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun
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People arent taking drones on him far as i can tell because of the leadership issue. I sure wont take any either, the drones not getting a 2+ because of the host model(s) anymore is a huge deal.
The pinning would be the most lethal i'd say. His attacks blow, and yes it would still be something as it would force invul saves not armor saves it wouldnt be as powerful as you think.
Pinning would force him to stay still for a turn. Thats huge for this guy as he wants to avoid combat by being mobile as hell. I imagine he cant do the assault movements either, which is just as big. Thus allowing you to actually catch him lol.
If it was just being able to move for a turn i'd use that turn to get to my side of the board edge, thus being out of range for that spell the next turn and being nowhere near any possible danger.
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An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/11 13:12:13
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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The Last Chancer Who Survived
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Vineheart01 wrote:People arent taking drones on him far as i can tell because of the leadership issue. I sure wont take any either, the drones not getting a 2+ because of the host model(s) anymore is a huge deal.
The pinning would be the most lethal i'd say. His attacks blow, and yes it would still be something as it would force invul saves not armor saves it wouldnt be as powerful as you think.
Pinning would force him to stay still for a turn. Thats huge for this guy as he wants to avoid combat by being mobile as hell. I imagine he cant do the assault movements either, which is just as big. Thus allowing you to actually catch him lol.
If it was just being able to move for a turn i'd use that turn to get to my side of the board edge, thus being out of range for that spell the next turn and being nowhere near any possible danger.
Well, that's why Chaos brings two Sorcerors/Daemon Princes as HQ's, and ally in a Daemon Prince/Fateweaver. We can be very mobile, and take enough Mastery Levels to stand a chance of getting something good like Hallucination near the Riptide.
And, even when too far to hit the Riptide, we can always use it on a closer unit of value
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/11 13:21:49
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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The Hive Mind
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Vineheart01 wrote:from what im being told, the Riptide is also not a character. Meaning it IS the first MC that is unable to challenge things.
Carnifexes, Trygon-non Primes, Harpys...
Also, really the Dreadknight isnt fearless either? I have a few faces to punch in then...dirty rat cheaters...lol not literally but that has changed the balance in a few games because it was "fearless" and being friends i just accepted it.
ASTKNF is close enough to Fearless in many cases.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/11 13:30:38
Subject: Re:Tau Riptide and Assault
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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This is hilarious. They obviously didn't think this through.
But I think it was a stupid idea in first place to give obvious vehicles MC rules. Why some giant robots use vehicle rules while some use MC rules? It makes no sense.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/11 13:43:35
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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HAha I just see the Riptide in combat with a couple of Daemonettes, the Riptide fails its Fear test and has to fight a WS1!! All it would take is for the 'nettes is to score one or two Rending wounds(or simply kill the drones) and it is over for the 'tide!!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/11 14:10:42
Subject: Re:Tau Riptide and Assault
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Fixture of Dakka
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Crimson wrote:This is hilarious. They obviously didn't think this through.
Where's your evidence it isn't deliberate? They know what Fearless does and what units its on.
Crimson wrote:
But I think it was a stupid idea in first place to give obvious vehicles MC rules. Why some giant robots use vehicle rules while some use MC rules? It makes no sense.
It was design decision made at the dawn of Tau to make suits not vehicles. I have a copy of the White Dwarf stating that on my shelf.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/11 14:17:13
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/11 14:35:23
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun
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To be fair, if Tau suits were walkers the entire army wouldnt be played right now. All armor except AV14 is pretty dang easy to deal with right now, and AV14 isnt even that bad once the long range factor is out of the question. Not to mention Grenades would be having a field day. Any MEQ would own Tau as nearly their entire codex would be affected by Krak/Melta bombs. An AV14 walker would be a pain in the butt i'll give ya that, but if they were all walkers i doubt any except the Riptide or Broadsides would have it...both of which arent melee based lol. EDIT: Also, the They Shall Know No Rules crap on Dreadknights doesnt autopass ANY tests except Fear and Regroup (which is after you have fallen back already) and cannot be sweeping advanced. The situations i am referring to where it would have made a difference is the combat breaking off because i technically won but since he was "fearless" he didnt take a test to fall back or not, letting me recharge/shoot the next turn. The other would be Pinning Tests, as Regrouping or Fear has nothing to do with that one and locking a Dreadknight down is a big deal so i can catch it with my tarpit or mob that can actually fight it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/04/11 14:39:49
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/11 18:44:43
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Well, the oddity is caused by 40K having completely different rules for vehicles and non-vehicles. For Riptide it at least makes some sense, as smaller suits are not vehicles either (because they're more like terminator armour, I suppose.) For Dreadknight it however makes no sense whatsoever. Both smaller and larger Imperial giant robots are vehicles. DK isn't, because Ward couldn't figure out a way to make a walker tough in CC; which in itself is a problem with either the vehicle rules or the designer.
One big thing I'd like them to do in some hypothetical future edition of 40K, is to make the vehicle and non-vehicle rules more unified... somehow.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/11 18:53:08
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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The Last Chancer Who Survived
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Crimson wrote:Well, the oddity is caused by 40K having completely different rules for vehicles and non-vehicles. For Riptide it at least makes some sense, as smaller suits are not vehicles either (because they're more like terminator armour, I suppose.) For Dreadknight it however makes no sense whatsoever. Both smaller and larger Imperial giant robots are vehicles. DK isn't, because Ward couldn't figure out a way to make a walker tough in CC; which in itself is a problem with either the vehicle rules or the designer.
One big thing I'd like them to do in some hypothetical future edition of 40K, is to make the vehicle and non-vehicle rules more unified... somehow.
Knowing GW, the closest we'll get to that would be a box of troops costing as much as a Land Raider.
And each box containing one model.
...But hey, it'll probably be highly detailed!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/12 05:56:39
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Annoyed Blood Angel Devastator
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The Ipad codex says Riptide is a page 48 of the Warhammer 40k rulebook Monsterous Creature with a Jetpack. Unless they amended page 48 in the BRB for all MCs, the Riptide is fearless.
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Armies I field - Tau, Dark Angels, Necrons, Blood Angels |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/12 06:02:04
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Longtime Dakkanaut
Aizuwakamatsu, Fukushima, Japan
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Ministry wrote:The Ipad codex says Riptide is a page 48 of the Warhammer 40k rulebook Monsterous Creature with a Jetpack. Unless they amended page 48 in the BRB for all MCs, the Riptide is fearless.
Have another read of page 48. Fearless isn't on the list. Fear is though. Not all Monstrous Creatures are Fearless.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/12 06:04:24
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter
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Ministry wrote:Unless they amended page 48 in the BRB for all MCs, the Riptide is fearless.
MCs have Fear listed. You might have misread this as "Fearless," an entry they do not have. There is no Errata in the current FAQ which affects p48.
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LVO 2017 - Best GK Player
The Grimdark Future 8500 1500  6000 2000 5000
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21 |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/12 07:22:11
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Vineheart01 wrote:People arent taking drones on him far as i can tell because of the leadership issue. I sure wont take any either, the drones not getting a 2+ because of the host model(s) anymore is a huge deal.
The pinning would be the most lethal i'd say. His attacks blow, and yes it would still be something as it would force invul saves not armor saves it wouldnt be as powerful as you think.
Pinning would force him to stay still for a turn. Thats huge for this guy as he wants to avoid combat by being mobile as hell. I imagine he cant do the assault movements either, which is just as big. Thus allowing you to actually catch him lol.
If it was just being able to move for a turn i'd use that turn to get to my side of the board edge, thus being out of range for that spell the next turn and being nowhere near any possible danger.
I'm personally not taking drones because of the "not a character" issue.
I really wish they'd included a "drones can LoS for non-drones" rule.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/12 07:40:42
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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The Last Chancer Who Survived
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RogueRegault wrote: Vineheart01 wrote:People arent taking drones on him far as i can tell because of the leadership issue. I sure wont take any either, the drones not getting a 2+ because of the host model(s) anymore is a huge deal.
The pinning would be the most lethal i'd say. His attacks blow, and yes it would still be something as it would force invul saves not armor saves it wouldnt be as powerful as you think.
Pinning would force him to stay still for a turn. Thats huge for this guy as he wants to avoid combat by being mobile as hell. I imagine he cant do the assault movements either, which is just as big. Thus allowing you to actually catch him lol.
If it was just being able to move for a turn i'd use that turn to get to my side of the board edge, thus being out of range for that spell the next turn and being nowhere near any possible danger.
I'm personally not taking drones because of the "not a character" issue.
I really wish they'd included a "drones can LoS for non-drones" rule.
You wouldn't want them anyways, as they'd cause morale issues with the riptide if they die.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/12 07:50:58
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun
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RogueRegault wrote: Vineheart01 wrote:People arent taking drones on him far as i can tell because of the leadership issue. I sure wont take any either, the drones not getting a 2+ because of the host model(s) anymore is a huge deal.
The pinning would be the most lethal i'd say. His attacks blow, and yes it would still be something as it would force invul saves not armor saves it wouldnt be as powerful as you think.
Pinning would force him to stay still for a turn. Thats huge for this guy as he wants to avoid combat by being mobile as hell. I imagine he cant do the assault movements either, which is just as big. Thus allowing you to actually catch him lol.
If it was just being able to move for a turn i'd use that turn to get to my side of the board edge, thus being out of range for that spell the next turn and being nowhere near any possible danger.
I'm personally not taking drones because of the "not a character" issue.
I really wish they'd included a "drones can LoS for non-drones" rule.
Where did i say the drones arent being taken because of the character issue? I said leadership, big difference.
Kill a drone, now you are down to 2 models instead of 3, leadership test please. Oh you failed? And youre that kind of unit? Cool, 3D6 retreat please.
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An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/04/12 17:32:16
Subject: Tau Riptide and Assault
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Dakka Veteran
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Jump shoot jump
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In a dog eat dog be a cat. |
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