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So the other day I was playing tau vs space wolves and the opponent dropped his rune priest into play and used jaws of the world wolf. He says that because my crisis suits are infantry and because my riptide is a monstrous creature they are both susceptible to jotww. I think because they are jet pack units they are immune to it. Ultimately in the game he argued his way into letting it work but I just can't see units with a jet pack being swallowed up by a crack in the earth. After looking at the rule book under unit types pg 47 jet packs are listed as a separate unit type but all jet pack units also have the In or Mc which jotww specifically says it hits. So what is your call on this?

Fluff wise no, rules yes.

DaKKaLAnce wrote:
Fluff wise no, rules yes.

Well looking at the tau codex crisis suits and riptide are jet pack infantry and jet pack monstrous creature respectively shouldn't that make them separate from infantry and monstrous creatures?

 lambsandlions wrote:
So the other day I was playing tau vs space wolves and the opponent dropped his rune priest into play and used jaws of the world wolf. He says that because my crisis suits are infantry and because my riptide is a monstrous creature they are both susceptible to jotww. I think because they are jet pack units they are immune to it. Ultimately in the game he argued his way into letting it work but I just can't see units with a jet pack being swallowed up by a crack in the earth. After looking at the rule book under unit types pg 47 jet packs are listed as a separate unit type but all jet pack units also have the In or Mc which jotww specifically says it hits. So what is your call on this?

In 6th edition, jump and jet pack are not separate unit types...they sit on top of the full unit type the model has. Check out the rules on the top of page 47 for more details.

So yes, I would agree that in 6th edition JotWW kills Jet Pack Infantry and Jet Pack Monstrous Creatures unfortunately (as I hate JotWW with a passion).

Its one of the reasons that you should stick with long range weapons on your Crisis Suits and Riptide when possible and get the heck out of dodge with the Riptide's 4D6" thrust move whenever those Rune Priests get anywhere nearby.

If you're getting nailed by Rune Priests dropping down out of Drop Pods, then taking Interceptor on your Riptide (and the Ion accelerator) can allow you to drop the S8 AP2 blast on a unit arriving from reserve that turn, which can put a serious hurting on the Rune Priest's unit before it gets a chance to use JotWW (so if your Riptide does go down hopefully he takes some of them with him). Also don't forget your Riptide gets +1 to his roll, so you've got a 50/50 shot to survive.

I am a space wolves player and have used Jotww afew times(Eldar on fields makes rune priest die very often) But I am also a 5th ed player but my reccomendation is ,well as the orks say it more Dakka! because JOTWW is only 24' range. As much firepower possible(sorry this may make no sense to you at all)

Or.... Because of battle brothers system get an eldar farseer to nullify the powers and the rune priest
Hope I helped

I have actually NEVER used JotWW.

But as has been said, in 6th edition, jump infantry/jetpack infantry are now a subset of infantry and therefore get hosed by JotWW.

I almost want to try it now with a Tau opponent just to see his face drop into disappointment.

This thread makes me hurt inside as the only thing my SW playing friend really understands at all is dropping rune priest outside that magic 12" of my tervigon and swallowing him up

Bloodynecronight are you including +1 to you initiave because they are monstrous creatures?

Never played Tyranids but do you have any anti-psyker units?

Yep, however that requires being within 12" of the creature.

Jet packs work by repelling off the ground at a constant distance.

If a large crack opens below you, you still repel off the ground, just 2000ft lower than you were previously...

 Xenith wrote:
Jet packs work by repelling off the ground at a constant distance.

If a large crack opens below you, you still repel off the ground, just 2000ft lower than you were previously...

What? It wouldn't be a Jet Pack then, it would be a Ground Effect Pack. Jet Packs work by providing more thrust then the suit weights, thus propelling it. That is why it has the Skyborne rule and can traverse any terrain feature without penalty and even land on top of Impassable Terrain.

 Xenith wrote:
Jet packs work by repelling off the ground at a constant distance.

If a large crack opens below you, you still repel off the ground, just 2000ft lower than you were previously...

Newton's spirit just facepalmed.

 lambsandlions wrote:
After looking at the rule book under unit types pg 47 jet packs are listed as a separate unit type but all jet pack units also have the In or Mc which jotww specifically says it hits.

Re-read the "Jump" and "Jet Pack" rules again. They both specifically state that they are not a unit type.

"Jump/Jet Pack is not a classification in and of itself. Instead you'll find it occurs before another category--commonly infantry, sometimes Monstrous Creature and, perhaps, rarely, other things. Jump units therefore share two sets of rules, the Jump unit rules, and those of their base type."

"Jump Infantry" is still "infantry". JOWW, and any other ability or effect that works on Infantry works on Jump Infantry just the same.

What page do I find the +1 to initiative for monstrous creatures within 12 inches?

I feel like I am being selectively blind. Any help would make me feel a lot less crazy.

Lehnsherr wrote:
What page do I find the +1 to initiative for monstrous creatures within 12 inches?

I feel like I am being selectively blind. Any help would make me feel a lot less crazy.

You won't, doesn't exist.

Lehnsherr wrote:
What page do I find the +1 to initiative for monstrous creatures within 12 inches? .

If there is such a thing it's in the text for Jaws in the SW Codex.

The rules for JotWW grant MCs a -1 to their roll, making it more likely they pass

Yeah, I was this close to running (imagine my fingers almost together) a drop pod full of rune priests (with one wolf guard not broken off) in an APOC game a few weeks ago just to drop 9 JotWW against the Daemons player/ork players

I decided not to, but I do want to see how Jaws does it's business. I was always a Living Lightning fan but maybe I should try drawing the thin line some more.

(PS: Instead of a RP bomb, I parked a Baneblade on a Skyshield Landing Pad... it had 1HP (not structure point!) left on Turn 6 when the game ended... XD)

IIRC The only things Jaws can not hit is pretty much vehicles and FMCs

So JotWW went from somewhat balanced-out to completely hosing people again? I'm not surprised.

This is another RAW vs RAI deal. My group plays it that Jump,Infantry are not hit by JotWW because in 5th edition, it specifically could not hit Jump units.

I refuse to believe it was intended to work out with the edition change that a power that previously couldn't hit jump troops all of sudden gained that ability. Unfortunately, since GW seems intent to never FAQ this one, you'll just have to put up with it doing just that when playing pick-up games or tourneys (I do neither).

Of course, it makes absolutely no sense that Jaws can hit jetbikes. Jetbikes can fly over 5-story buildings but watch out for that crack in the ground!!!!

Yeah, JotWW is pretty much my least favourite ability in the entire game. Auto hit, instant death, precision shots, no LOS, ignores invulnerable, hits multiple targets - all they get is a single save which is likely to be worse than their armour save.
Maybe I hate it even more because I play Tau and most targets are expensive I2 W2 models with no psykic defense, but abilities like this are just generally terrible.

 Kepora wrote:
So JotWW went from somewhat balanced-out to completely hosing people again? I'm not surprised.

Whatever you may personally feel about how balanced it is, I suspect that it's actually just that with the change to 6th edition JotWW started functioning the way it was originally intended to...

People pointed out back when the codex was released that it was a little weird for Jaws to not affect Jump/Jet troops (who have their feet firmly on the ground in between movement) while it did affect jetbikes (who don't).

That's no longer an issue.

 insaniak wrote:

 Kepora wrote:
So JotWW went from somewhat balanced-out to completely hosing people again? I'm not surprised.

Whatever you may personally feel about how balanced it is, I suspect that it's actually just that with the change to 6th edition JotWW started functioning the way it was originally intended to...

People pointed out back when the codex was released that it was a little weird for Jaws to not affect Jump/Jet troops (who have their feet firmly on the ground in between movement) while it did affect jetbikes (who don't).

That's no longer an issue.

JetBIKES and the likes are the ones that tend to ride on an anti-gravity 'cushion', somewhat akin to Snowspeeders, Swoop Bikes, and Pod racers from the Star Wars movies; they repel off the ground, but can only maintain a certain altitude before they just plummet. Jump/JetPACKS, however, range from jet engines to simply a friggin' rocket tied to your back that provides actual thrust that breaks the pull of gravity, actually allowing you to ascend and maintain it (at least for a short while, or the necessary parabolic arc to clear the sudden opening in the ground).

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
This is another RAW vs RAI deal. My group plays it that Jump,Infantry are not hit by JotWW because in 5th edition, it specifically could not hit Jump units.

That's not actually the case. Jaws lists the unit types it affects. In 5th Jump Infantry was a different unit type than Infantry, so Jaws saying it affects Infantry didn't include Jump Infantry. In 6th that's explicitly been changed. Jump Infantry are Infantry + more rules. None of which make them immune.

 ClassicCarraway wrote:
Of course, it makes absolutely no sense that Jaws can hit jetbikes. Jetbikes can fly over 5-story buildings but watch out for that crack in the ground!!!!

You can always fluff-rationalize a rule if you want. Maybe the crack suddenly opening under the grav-effect generators causes a 1/3 (assuming I4) chance that the bike crashes.

 insaniak wrote:

 Kepora wrote:
So JotWW went from somewhat balanced-out to completely hosing people again? I'm not surprised.

Whatever you may personally feel about how balanced it is, I suspect that it's actually just that with the change to 6th edition JotWW started functioning the way it was originally intended to...

People pointed out back when the codex was released that it was a little weird for Jaws to not affect Jump/Jet troops (who have their feet firmly on the ground in between movement) while it did affect jetbikes (who don't).

That's no longer an issue.

What about Tyranid Gargoyles or Furies? I doubt they'd be landing at all.

They're victims of GW copping out and making models jump troops when they actually should be flying units.