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How should I equip tau pathfinders? I have been thinking of giving them 3 ion-rifles and two markerlight drones.

Remember, if you give a special weapon to the Shas'ui, he can make Precision Shots. I plan to give mine a Rail Rifle for that very reason.

 Archonate wrote:
Remember, if you give a special weapon to the Shas'ui, he can make Precision Shots. I plan to give mine a Rail Rifle for that very reason.

Sounds nice, but what do you think about giving rail-rifles to the other pathfinders or about ion-rifles?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS What do you think about marker drones?

I would also like to know what people think I was considering having a 7 man squad 3 with rail rifles the remaining 4 for their marker lights

I am planning on buying the new box of Pathfinders which will bring my total of PF's to 16 with what I already have. My intent will be to run them in 2 squads of 8, and I am thinking of putting at least 2 rail rifles in 1 of those squads and maybe just run the other one with carbines and marker lights.

kelewan wrote:
I would also like to know what people think I was considering having a 7 man squad 3 with rail rifles the remaining 4 for their marker lights

I have't tested the pathfinders yet but why you would use only 7 man squad when the normal pathfinders are so cheap?

Before you go into full Rail Rifle mode, remember that that pathfinders are your mainstay source of markerlights, unless you are rick enough to afford tetras.

And those pathfinders should mark things that the rest of your army need to shoot at. So if you want to light up terminators for your riptide/crisis suits, it would be fine and dandy to blast it with a RR. But how about guardsmen? Or a tank for that matter. Suddenly rail rifle is of only marginal benefit when compared to half a markerlight.

So think about what you want those pathfinder to do before equipping those rifles.

Lumipon wrote:
Before you go into full Rail Rifle mode, remember that that pathfinders are your mainstay source of markerlights, unless you are rick enough to afford tetras.

Not quite so anymore. we do have plenty better sources of marker lights now in the HQ sections. Mark'o with drone controller + ether drone squads or body guards with extra drones, can give you alot of reliable marker light hits.

and equiping the suits in certain ways can let you attack other targets at the same time so they arnt completely locked into support rolls.

I'm fairly new to tau but surely putting 5 markers on one target is a bit excessive from 10 path finders?

Good opinions about the rail-rifles but I am interested too about wich are better ion- or rail-rifles?

Good things ion-rifle: blasts, high str, insta-kill marines when over-charged, good range for blasts, cheaper.
Bad things ion-rifle: bad ap, gets hot.

Good things rail-rifles: good ap, moderate str.
Bad things rail-rifles: not blasts/few shots, expensive.

Btw Are forge world tau units all allowed in tournaments because everybody is speaking about tetras?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

kelewan wrote:
I'm fairly new to tau but surely putting 5 markers on one target is a bit excessive from 10 path finders?

Well atleast for me I think that 3-5 markerlights are not too much because sometimes you need to boost snap-shots.

kelewan wrote:
I'm fairly new to tau but surely putting 5 markers on one target is a bit excessive from 10 path finders?

5 Marker lights lets you spend 2 to raise your FW/Crisis/Riptide BS to 5 and then spend another 2 to remove any cover save the target might have. If they don't have a cover save, then you can spend 2 on the next unit to fire at them to raise their BS to 5 also. Many ML tokens allows for accurate fire from more then one unit.

Miri wrote:

kelewan wrote:
I'm fairly new to tau but surely putting 5 markers on one target is a bit excessive from 10 path finders?

5 Marker lights lets you spend 2 to raise your FW/Crisis/Riptide BS to 5 and then spend another 2 to remove any cover save the target might have. If they don't have a cover save, then you can spend 2 on the next unit to fire at them to raise their BS to 5 also. Many ML tokens allows for accurate fire from more then one unit.

Fair enough how many path finders would you recommend in a 1000pt game if the path finders are the sole providers

Khartas wrote:

 Archonate wrote:
Remember, if you give a special weapon to the Shas'ui, he can make Precision Shots. I plan to give mine a Rail Rifle for that very reason.

Sounds nice, but what do you think about giving rail-rifles to the other pathfinders or about ion-rifles?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PS What do you think about marker drones?

The 'Gets Hot' is a deal breaker for me now that Pathfinders only have a 5+ save. I think S6 is plenty high and with AP1 you'll do more killing and maybe even light vehicle busting. It's upsetting how Overcharge never improves the AP. Ripoff. I'm putting my Pathfinder's life at risk by overcharging so that I MIGHT kill a SM or two? Not a good trade imo.

As for Marker Drones, I'm saddened that they no longer have a networked markerlight and are now only BS2. I don't know if I'll put them in my squads yet. I'll have to see if 2 PF squads bring enough markerlights to the table...
However, If you're running a Commander, you can give him a Drone Controller and attach him to a squad of Marker Drones for a nasty blob of BS5 Markerlights. But then you're giving up an HQ to fill the role of your Marking... Not necessarily bad, since that firepower can be purchased elsewhere.

Khartas wrote:
Good opinions about the rail-rifles but I am interested too about wich are better ion- or rail-rifles?

Good things ion-rifle: blasts, high str, insta-kill marines when over-charged, good range for blasts, cheaper.
Bad things ion-rifle: bad ap, gets hot.

Good things rail-rifles: good ap, moderate str.
Bad things rail-rifles: not blasts/few shots, expensive.

I am not sure I understand the shots being a bad thing for a rail rifle. Both the ion rifle and the rail rifle are 30" range, rapid fire.

I think he means Rail rifles are always have stock potential vs the ion which has a potential to hit more than just 1-2.

from another post some where, you can use dark strider to lower ID thresh hold to ID people. so a rail rifle on a sarge can potential snipe characters or heavy/special weapons out.

Ah ok, yes that makes sense.

The fact that they get Carbines as well, I would always recommend getting 12 (3x 4man squads) in any list 1000pts or more.

I would also suggest Ion Rifles over Rail Rifles. Railfinders, at 26ppm, are not the place to look for AP2 anti-infantry firepower. Plasmaguns, fusion guns or riptides (or/and VoF) is where you should look for your AP2 anti-infantry firepower.

Ion Rifles, for their points, very versatile weapon.

Razerous wrote:
The fact that they get Carbines as well, I would always recommend getting 12 (3x 4man squads) in any list 1000pts or more.

I would also suggest Ion Rifles over Rail Rifles. Railfinders, at 26ppm, are not the place to look for AP2 anti-infantry firepower. Plasmaguns, fusion guns or riptides (or/and VoF) is where you should look for your AP2 anti-infantry firepower.

Ion Rifles, for their points, very versatile weapon.

Problem is that they already have weapons that will wound on 3-2 anyway they might as well keep the carbines and the enemy will still get armor saves against ions. with the Rail they wont get armor.
but if you really have the choice i would rather you save the points and use them on something else and keep pathfinders stock marker men. extra drones to keep your suits safe would be better than to put points into pathfinders. but if you REALLY need to, i prefer rails on sergeants.
edit: The only other reason you may want to take Ion over Rail is for anti light vehicles, but that depends on the rest of your list.

 Desubot wrote:

Razerous wrote:
The fact that they get Carbines as well, I would always recommend getting 12 (3x 4man squads) in any list 1000pts or more.

I would also suggest Ion Rifles over Rail Rifles. Railfinders, at 26ppm, are not the place to look for AP2 anti-infantry firepower. Plasmaguns, fusion guns or riptides (or/and VoF) is where you should look for your AP2 anti-infantry firepower.

Ion Rifles, for their points, very versatile weapon.

Problem is that they already have weapons that will wound on 3-2 anyway they might as well keep the carbines and the enemy will still get armor saves against ions. with the Rail they wont get armor.
but if you really have the choice i would rather you save the points and use them on something else and keep pathfinders stock marker men. extra drones to keep your suits safe would be better than to put points into pathfinders. but if you REALLY need to, i prefer rails on sergeants.
edit: The only other reason you may want to take Ion over Rail is for anti light vehicles, but that depends on the rest of your list.

So wich of these load-outs is prefered?

10x pathfinders 3x rail-rifles

4x pathfinders 3x rail-rifles

10x pathfinders 3x rail-rifles 2x marker drones

4x pathfinders 3x rail-rifles 2x marker drones

10x pathfinders rail-rifle

4x pathfinders rail-rifle

10x pathfinders rail-rifle 2x marker drones

4x pathfinders rail-rifle 2x marker drones

If not marker drones then what drones? Or should they go without any drones?

Khartas wrote:
So wich of these load-outs is prefered?

None of the above. 10x pathfinders with markerlights, and spend the upgrade points on more crisis suits (which are more efficient at shooting than rail rifle pathfinders).

 Peregrine wrote:

Khartas wrote:
So wich of these load-outs is prefered?

None of the above. 10x pathfinders with markerlights, and spend the upgrade points on more crisis suits (which are more efficient at shooting than rail rifle pathfinders).

Aren't drones good with the pathfinders as they provide some toughnes 4 armour 4?

Khartas wrote:

Aren't drones good with the pathfinders as they provide some toughnes 4 armour 4?

I'd definitely take the drones. It is two tougher models the enemy has to shoot first, before hitting the squishies.

As for rail rifles, they are better in a bigger squad. They need some extra bodies to protect them.

Rail rifles are a very good upgrade for Pathfinders that may Outflank, as they are extremely lethal when rapid firing even without Markerlight support. The Shas'ui, if one is taken, should bear one of the rail rifles for obvious reasons. That said, it is an expensive upgrade and not necessarily worth it.

One other thing to consider is how many markerlight hits you actually need. Markerlights experience serious diminishing returns beyond 3-4 hits (and in some cases 1-2 hits). For this reason large units equipped only with basic carbines and markerlights can be wasteful.

One advantage of the ion rifle is that it synergizes better with markerlights with the rail rifle, as it is at least somewhat effective against all targets.

So with all the information I now have what do you think about this unit?

10x pathfinders, 3x rail-rifles, 2x marker drones

Should I change the marker drones to other drones? And should I take the other special drones?

I wouldn't bother with drones. They've got lower BS markerlights for higher points cost, their toughness won't make a difference (you use the majority) and your pathfinders should have 4+ cover anyway, so the armour won't make much difference. Plus, it's protecting 11 point models with 12 point models... it's just a little ridiculous. Spend the points elsewhere.

Khartas wrote:
So with all the information I now have what do you think about this unit?

10x pathfinders, 3x rail-rifles, 2x marker drones

Should I change the marker drones to other drones? And should I take the other special drones?

I think that depends on how many markerlights your army has overall. If are actually planning to shoot with your carbines, gun drones instead of the markers and a pulse accelerator would be an obvious choices.

Personally I plan to take a separate marker drone squad, and let Pathfinders concentrate on killing things.

Still think that RR are a waste of points on a PF unit, whose explicit job is to buff the more efficient killers. They are inaccurate, too fragile and too expensive for what they do on the table. You could use a markerlight to up their BS, but why would you even do that?

Drones are useful as ablative wounds, and marker drones might be useful if you find yourself moving more than occasionally, since the drones still fire at BS2.

Just... Please don't be disappointed if the rail rifles underperform.

 p_gray99 wrote:
I wouldn't bother with drones. They've got lower BS markerlights for higher points cost, their toughness won't make a difference (you use the majority) and your pathfinders should have 4+ cover anyway, so the armour won't make much difference. Plus, it's protecting 11 point models with 12 point models... it's just a little ridiculous. Spend the points elsewhere.

It is one point more; do two points per whole squad really matter?

I would keep the Pathfinders close to bare bones. The reason being that, in my experience, your opponents will attempt to focus them down quickly. They've got big red targets on their backs and making them even more expensive/threatening is only going make it more likely that they get smoked.

Kingsley's idea is interesting. I could see that working, but I also find it to be a bit too pricey for what it would do and how often it would actually be successful (I dont see too much mech anymore, so I'm not sure Str.6 side AV shots would be that useful around here).

LValx wrote:
Kingsley's idea is interesting. I could see that working, but I also find it to be a bit too pricey for what it would do and how often it would actually be successful (I dont see too much mech anymore, so I'm not sure Str.6 side AV shots would be that useful around here).

6 Strength 6 AP1 shots (plus Carbines) is pretty scary for most infantry units as well!