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I had the enjoyment of playing my first game against the new Tau last night, and I must say I like what I saw of the new codex.

The absolute shock of the evening was the changes to marker lights -- in the past, 5 marker lights were needed to deprive Pathfinders or gone-to-ground Rangers of their 2+ cover save. Now only two are needed! I can imagine that Harlequins will be heavily impacted, and it also made a big difference on my wraithwall - no rerollable conceal. Now that I think of it, same problem for jet bikes.

Just food for thought, and a warning for those who have not yet faced it!

I'm wondering how much change this will be to the Eldar meta (for a few months anyway) -- I guess a lot will depend on the prevalence of Tau in your area or tourneys.

Cheers,

V

Wave Serpents are the best troll unit to use against the rail gun. Whats that you have an S10 gun? Cool its treated as an S8 now MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Pretty much if your facing tau get in a WS, pop out, annihilate and repeat. I had a group of DA's with a farseer and exarch wipe out whole squads of FW while my mobile fragons took care of his railguns that couldn't even hit my WS .

Warp Spiders are also good against tau, or at least against the troops ( not crisis suits) and pathfinders of tau since they just say "Aloha" to what ever group they show up next to. Armor saves help heaps as well.

SS are also gonna see play against the tau (more likely possibility) since they can outflank into ruins (if all else fails then armor saves!) and then next turn catch up to the fleeing tau and then smite them for not learning what a knife is!

Really some units are weak against tau while others got stronger. Just gotta find out what annihilates tau!

watch out for devilfish with Smart Missile Systems, its a S5 AP5 twinlinked heavy 4 that ignores cover and does not need LOS, im going to use those in abundance next time i deal with pathfinders.

Pathfinders/Rangers were already pretty average troops, there already was a reasonable chunk of weapons with ignore cover (i.e Flamers, Heldrakes) combined with the increased number of really fast assault units (multiple Beast/Cav units in the Daemon codex, Spawn for Chaos Marines) that they have no way to back away from (i.e they can't move and fire to at least give themselves some options) had already put them below Guardians as viable Eldar scoring options. The changes to Markerlights for Tau just make things worse, I haven't seen any competitive Eldar lists running Pathfinders (admittedly there aren't many competitive Eldar lists at all) anyway.

It certainly hurts Harlies more than Pathfinders, because people were actually using Harlies as part of competitive builds. The volume of fire Tau can put out combined with removing cover can easily chip away at Harliestars until all the Harlies are gone, and it gets worse if someone precision shots on to the Shadowseer.

@GTKA666. Serpents just get demolished by Missile Pods/Broadsides with Pods/Drones, the massed S7 (often with Tank Hunters) easily glances you to death. Railguns/Cannons still do pretty well against them in any case, assuming it hits a S8 AP1 shot has a 1/3 chance to pen and a 1/2 chance to kill, so 6 Railgun hits still comfortably remove a Serpent (even if you don't explode it 6 hits should strip hull points anyway). I would also like to know how the hell you are managing to have ANY infantry alive when facing Tau, Avengers on foot should just get wiped off the face of the earth by Pulse Rifle fire the turn after they disembark (whether you get them out or they are shot out).

I feel like eldar and IG were hurt the hardest from markerlights. Both of those armies rely heavily on cover saves, jink etc. For right now you can only wait out the storm and I am sure in a few months (I hear July) you will get the tools to put up more of a fight.

@powerguy I had a WS survive a decked out Farsight body guard attack. First I went "O gak" as they arrived, he even penned it and I lost my cannon! After the first one though they either wiffed or I Jink saved. BS is the great equalizer! The guy didn't have broadsides for what ever reason, but it didn't matter since there is also cover that I can use to hide behind from broadsides. Really all we have to do is use more cover and hide in WS to protect the troops from cover annihilating missiles.

GTKA666 wrote:
@powerguy I had a WS survive a decked out Farsight body guard attack. First I went "O gak" as they arrived, he even penned it and I lost my cannon! After the first one though they either wiffed or I Jink saved. BS is the great equalizer! The guy didn't have broadsides for what ever reason, but it didn't matter since there is also cover that I can use to hide behind from broadsides. Really all we have to do is use more cover and hide in WS to protect the troops from cover annihilating missiles.

I think you are missing the point of this thread. Marker lights remove cover. I am curious what weapons were in this farsight bomb because missile pods, fussion blasters, even burst cannons and plasma rifles all should have taken out the wave serpent. He was hitting the back right? Anyway, if he was taking marker lights which he should have been he could have easily increased his bs to 5 and took away your jink.

 lambsandlions wrote:

GTKA666 wrote:
@powerguy I had a WS survive a decked out Farsight body guard attack. First I went "O gak" as they arrived, he even penned it and I lost my cannon! After the first one though they either wiffed or I Jink saved. BS is the great equalizer! The guy didn't have broadsides for what ever reason, but it didn't matter since there is also cover that I can use to hide behind from broadsides. Really all we have to do is use more cover and hide in WS to protect the troops from cover annihilating missiles.

I think you are missing the point of this thread. Marker lights remove cover. I am curious what weapons were in this farsight bomb because missile pods, fussion blasters, even burst cannons and plasma rifles all should have taken out the wave serpent. He was hitting the back right? Anyway, if he was taking marker lights which he should have been he could have easily increased his bs to 5 and took away your jink.

Im not sure if you can really call it a farsight bomb if it doesn't have one suit sitting back and watching while the rest of the squad gets twin linked and ignores cover.

The point of the thread is how to deal with marker lights ya? WS are a nice place to house units that would get wrecked by them.

Why would I allow my WS to have its back shown if I knew he had missle pods ds in? I know I am knew to 40k...but seriously who would willing have their back exposed to ds units...

Potential impacts of new Tau on Eldar;

1. Now Eldrad + Divination + Forewarning (4+i save power) is now even MORE of a must have than it already was.

2. Wave Serpents are slightly more valuable against Tau as S5 possible ignore cover doesn't do crap to Front&Side 12 and Tau might have a lot missles but nothing is greater than 8 against a Serpent's front ...but, Serpents still cost way too many points.

3. Two Fire Prisms instead of firing combined, can lay down 2 large AP4 pie plates to force lots of cover saves on Fire Warriors and Pathfinders (and kill those who stray out of cover)

4. Another reason not to use our overpriced Rangers.

^ +1 on Forewarding, with Fortune it should keep our stuff alive long enough to take out the threats.

I think the change is that Eldar need to be able to force the Tau player into using markers for buffing BS by causing close-range threats rather than spending markers to ignore cover. As I work it if they don't use the markers to buff BS @ 2000pts they're looking at 8-10 units being stripped of their cover save.

But if ever an army was a swiss-army knife, its Eldar, so predictably we have units for the job:

1- Jetseer Council - This is Tau hell. Its strong in CC, it has a rockhard invunerable save and worst of all its hella fast. Same goes for the DE Allies Beast-Rush build, aim for Forewarding, Fortune it and watch them cry.

2- Wraithwalls with Forewarding. T6, rerolled 4++ and FNP if you have a Wraithseer. Get into 24" range and whack Broadside teams (or Riptide!) with a D-Cannon blast. Whats that? ap2, fleshbane and instant death on a 6? A medal for the first person that instant-deaths a Riptide with a Wraithseer!

3- Also, as said above, Fire Prisms outrange a lot of the Tau stuff, now that Railsides are only S8 and not even the best build we've got less to worry about backfield.

It's uphill and its a shame it wrecks some tried and tested builds like Harliestar with such a basic piece of wargear but hey, they could be us in a few months! Woo?

 Farseer_Kaiser wrote:
1- Jetseer Council - This is Tau hell. Its strong in CC, it has a rockhard invunerable save and worst of all its hella fast. Same goes for the DE Allies Beast-Rush build, aim for Forewarding, Fortune it and watch them cry.

I'm not really seeing how this is so amazing. You have a single character with a rerollable 4++, everything else just has a cover save (unless you roll the right power) and cover saves aren't very useful against Tau. And of course if you tank anything with the character a single unsaved STR 8 shot (of which there will be plenty) gets rid of it.

(Granted, it's good against other armies, but Tau seem to be the perfect counter to jetseer death stars.)

2- Wraithwalls with Forewarding. T6, rerolled 4++ and FNP if you have a Wraithseer. Get into 24" range and whack Broadside teams (or Riptide!) with a D-Cannon blast. Whats that? ap2, fleshbane and instant death on a 6? A medal for the first person that instant-deaths a Riptide with a Wraithseer!

If you take a Farseer with divination and get lucky enough to get the right one. Otherwise you've just made a great target for cover-ignoring Riptides. And that's a pretty big gamble to make considering the price of that unit.

3- Also, as said above, Fire Prisms outrange a lot of the Tau stuff, now that Railsides are only S8 and not even the best build we've got less to worry about backfield.

STR 8, but potentially with tank hunters/no cover, and AP 1 hurts if you get a hit through. Riptides bring STR 9 ordnance from across the table. And Hammerheads still exist, with a powerful new character upgrade. It might not be as much as in the old codex, but it's not like Eldar get an unlimited supply of Fire Prisms.

And of course don't forget that the price of Fire Prisms is not taking Warp Hunters, a decision I can't really understand.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Farseer_Kaiser wrote:
1- Jetseer Council - This is Tau hell. Its strong in CC, it has a rockhard invunerable save and worst of all its hella fast. Same goes for the DE Allies Beast-Rush build, aim for Forewarding, Fortune it and watch them cry.

I'm not really seeing how this is so amazing. You have a single character with a rerollable 4++, everything else just has a cover save (unless you roll the right power) and cover saves aren't very useful against Tau. And of course if you tank anything with the character a single unsaved STR 8 shot (of which there will be plenty) gets rid of it.

All council members get an invunerable save 4++

 Peregrine wrote:

 Farseer_Kaiser wrote:
1- Jetseer Council - This is Tau hell. Its strong in CC, it has a rockhard invunerable save and worst of all its hella fast. Same goes for the DE Allies Beast-Rush build, aim for Forewarding, Fortune it and watch them cry.

I'm not really seeing how this is so amazing. You have a single character with a rerollable 4++, everything else just has a cover save (unless you roll the right power) and cover saves aren't very useful against Tau. And of course if you tank anything with the character a single unsaved STR 8 shot (of which there will be plenty) gets rid of it.

(Granted, it's good against other armies, but Tau seem to be the perfect counter to jetseer death stars.)

Warlocks have a 4++. The bikes themselves give 3+. And, unlike the 2W combos that are out there, they did not FAQ Warlocks - they're always characters.

Jetbike seer councils are the one thing that makes me wish I used DC sometimes. I just settle for tarpit vs FNP ASM. Yeah, they're a problem for Tau. We'll see if the Eldar retain the jetbike seer council for 6th.

Jetbike Council + Baron = A unit that can't be locked in a tarpit combat. To me, that's how I'd run it. The Harliestar combo is dead now. There is no way if I played competitively that I'd field that combo again. Your chances of running into Tau in tournaments is high now. That is damn near an auto loss if matched up. Too many points in that unit that if eliminated, it would be near impossible to recover from.

I never thought much of Harliestar anyway. As an Eldar player, I've seriously beat them using Shimmershield Dire Avengers several times.

Also, that Ignore Cover Divination ability really hurts them too.

Just means that ally with DE(or corsairs) is that much more important. Baron in front, Tau player has to decided to use the makerlights to remove cover or not. If yes, then the Baron takes them all. If no, he can LOS to a harlequin who probably has a 2+ or 3+ cover save.

Really, it doesnt hurt harleystar as much as you think. The stars always have eldrad/baron in them. With the 3 riptide list my harlequin spam army would do fine, though they are certainly a more formidable army with the update. Before i would walk all over them.

It is a pain that they made flashlights help hitting people who are on the ground behind an ADL tho. Thats pretty damn silly.

I've always found Harlequins to be an interesting choice for a death star. My BA lists usually have a couple of cheap ASM squads in TL HF razors armed with flamers and hand flamers. Total points is less than 300 for two such squads. I've only seen the Harliestar once, but when I did, I burned it up pretty badly. That same TAC list also has a Whirlwind.

Divination (Perfect Timing) = 1 D-E-D ded Harliestar.

Let alone whoever can field lots of flamers or ignore cover pieplates like Whirlwinds or Tau suits with AirBurst whatevers

...but let me say what Eldar units are still good against Tau:

Avatar, he ignores fusion which there will be more of due to rail-nerf.

Fire Prism, it's still a steal, and AP4 pieplates ruin Tau days especially it bein AV12 and the points cost, less than Kroot!

Dire Avengers, aka Carbine Fire Warriors with way better stats

Misfortune on FireWarriors means they are rerolling their -passed- 4+ armor...

???