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Hey, what is everyone's opinion on the Dakkafex in 6th edition, is it still the best option for a Carnifex? And is it worth the 190 points?

Thanks

Is it the best option? Yes.

Is it worth the 190 points? Not really... I've had success with dropping one in a Mycetic Spore to do some damage, but for the same points I could get 10 Ymgarl Genestealers, for 30 more points I could get another Dakka Flyrant, and for 30 less points I could get 16 devilgants in a spore, any of which would be a much more cost effective option over the dakkafex, but I do love it so.

Ok, thanks for your reply!

My Dakkafex is frequently Man of the Match. I've never felt that the points have been wasted (well, maybe once when two deep striking Dark Eldar units poisoned it to death, but my opponent cheated since we forgot in 6th you can deepstrike your whole army).

Never underestimate those Devourers. 12 S6 twin linked shots will wither anything it hits. Multiple Dakkafexes get to overkill amounts of firepower. Don't expect too much out of it in assault - lacking scything talons, it's going to miss a lot and krak grenade weilding squads will hurt it, but it's not bad if you just absolutely need a tank dead and have nothing else close.

The best method is to drop pod it in. It's unexpected, and when opponents think it's dumb because you can't assault, unleash those Devourers and watch that smile disappear. Anything AV12 or under is fair game - you'll strip it of hull points with that kind of firepower.

The key to using it properly is just the same as it was in 5th edition. Use cover. And I don't mean to get cover saves. Use LoS blocking cover to hide it from anti tank weapons until you're in a position to unleash its firepower when you need it. It's easy to do - Carnifexes are very short, so even hiding behind a one storey ruin is easy. Remember things like tails and those back chimneys don't count for LoS (BRB page 8, LoS rules). Use this to your advantage - the tail alone cuts off about 2" of the models length for LoS.

Carnifexes are still overpriced, but they're not outright bad. If you want to use a Dakkafex, it'll still serve you well.

It's the best way to use a carnifex, especially in a mycetic spore.

That said I find it far too expensive for it's fragility.

It's 190pts, and really isn't that tough to kill, particularly seeing as it has to get in close to do damage.

Yes, when it drops it may kill one vehicle or unit, but then most likely it will die.

Not a fan since the codex dropped way back and they made it cost far too much.

Jangustus wrote:
Yes, when it drops it may kill one vehicle or unit, but then most likely it will die.

That's not the way to look at it. The way to look at it is 'I just dropped a S6 spewing monstrous creature into your backline that, on a failed leadership test, gets +2A on the turn it charges. I guess you'll want to divert some firepower that way away from my Flyrant/Swarmlord/Tervigons/etc? Yes? No?'.

It's the ultimate diversion unit. It's big, it's decently tough, it's got some rather significant firepower (especially when in the backline it'll be facing a lot of rear armour), and the mycetic spore makes it very accurate. Use it aggressively, and basically beg your opponent to go get it. The rest of the Tyranid force will be eagerly waiting. If they don't, they have something in their backline they really don't want back there. If they do, have fun with the rest of your army hitting an opponent on the back foot.

 -Loki- wrote:

Jangustus wrote:
Yes, when it drops it may kill one vehicle or unit, but then most likely it will die.

That's not the way to look at it. The way to look at it is 'I just dropped a S6 spewing monstrous creature into your backline that, on a failed leadership test, gets +2A on the turn it charges. I guess you'll want to divert some firepower that way away from my Flyrant/Swarmlord/Tervigons/etc? Yes? No?'.

It's the ultimate diversion unit. It's big, it's decently tough, it's got some rather significant firepower (especially when in the backline it'll be facing a lot of rear armour), and the mycetic spore makes it very accurate. Use it aggressively, and basically beg your opponent to go get it. The rest of the Tyranid force will be eagerly waiting. If they don't, they have something in their backline they really don't want back there. If they do, have fun with the rest of your army hitting an opponent on the back foot.

I never said it was a bad tactic, I use it myself, it's just not the most cost effective distraction/alpha strike unit compared to other similarly priced options (Mawlocs and the others I mentioned). That being said, dropping with another distraction unit (I like to use a Trygon and/or the Doom of Malan'tai for this tactic) will often see your opponent take down the other unit and leave the less threatening Dakkafex alive, giving you another turn of devourery goodness (its fun busting up a transport then charging its squishy occupants, especially if they're IG or something else that can't really fight back)

Oh I agree they're expensive, but the only diversionary unit that's better is the Doom, honestly.

See I don't find Mawlocs terribly effective. They don't have scything talons, low WS and even less attacks than the Carnifex. Their only trick is their Terror from the Deep attack. While it's dangerous, it's very hit and miss. You need to play even more aggressively than a Dakkafex, and you really need multiple Mawlocs to support each other and provide backline target saturation so it gets a chance to redeploy and hit again. That mounts up cost very quickly.

Trygons are brawlers. While they can deep strike, it keeps them out of combat for another turn. While they have an okay shooting attack, it's a tad inaccurate. It does its best work in assault, and to get there, it's better off walking with Endurance support and target saturation to keep fire off it. It's deep strike is less accurate than a Dakkafex or Mawloc due to not having in built safeties for moving off target, and doesn't have as strong an alpha strike when it appears.

The Doom is the ultimate deep striking diversionary unit. It's cheap, accurate, does immediate effect to unmounted enemies and then drops a high strength pie plate before weathering return fire with a 3++ save. Dakkafexes, despite their cost, are a good alternative.

Would you ever use the dakkafex and the doom together behind enemy lines?

it's not a case of using them 'together', it's putting both behind their backline at the same time and each doing its own thing. They both have Instrinctive Behaviour - Feed, so failing an IB test isn't the end of the world, and is actually beneficial for the Carnifex.

What it does it put two high threat units in the opponents backline while they have a bunch of high threat units attacking from their main front. It forces your opponent to divide his forces to deal with the new threats, otherwise leave them to romp along their backline killing things. Both are tough units that take a goodly amount of firepower to take down.

Playing Necrons? I ignore it with my SA13 Vehicles.

Playing Space Wolves? My Lone Wolf just got a new playmate!

Playing Sisters? OHGODOHGODOHGODOHGOD*.....


(*God being the Emperor, of course)

 TheKbob wrote:
Playing Necrons? I ignore it with my SA13 Vehicles.

Hi rear armour, I'm a Dakkafex deploying behind you!

 -Loki- wrote:
OTrygons are brawlers. While they can deep strike, it keeps them out of combat for another turn. While they have an okay shooting attack, it's a tad inaccurate. It does its best work in assault, and to get there, it's better off walking with Endurance support and target saturation to keep fire off it. It's deep strike is less accurate than a Dakkafex or Mawloc due to not having in built safeties for moving off target, and doesn't have as strong an alpha strike when it appears.

I'd just like to point out that Trygons do have the same in built safeties for moving off target as the rest of our deep strikers.

Is it part of subterranean assault? I'll be honest, I haven't looked at that rule since I saw how much it doesn't work. Other than that, Trygons have plain old Deep Strike.

That still, however, doesn't make them good at being a backline diversion, as they lack the alpha strike capability of Dooms and Dakkafexes, and pretty much means they'll die before getting to do their much better assault damage.

Yeah, it's part of Subterranean Assault.

I can't think of many situations where I'd take a Dakkafex-in-a-pod over a Trygon or extra Flyrant. They just seem overcosted for what will often be a one-shot suicide unit.

A Doom is a cheaper and more durable unit for distracting the enemy back field, thanks to its 3++ save soaking up all the AP3 or rending attacks that would ruin a Fex. Especially a Fex that lands within range of virtually every weapon your opponent has.

A Trygon Prime can take 50% more damage, is almost as effective at shooting rear armour (it'll average 3 glances/pens on AV10) and thanks to Fleet plus ScyTals is much more reliable for subsequent assaults where it has better init and attacks. All this for only 10 points more than a Fex-in-a-pod.

A Flyrant can throw around Biomancy buffs and provide synapse to other deep-strikers, as well as deal well with Flyers.

The Fex really needs at least one of the following to be worthwhile: a decent points cut, a 2+ armour option or +1 Toughness.

 xttz wrote:
Especially a Fex that lands within range of virtually every weapon your opponent has.

The key is to land it out of Line of Sight. Preferably in line of sight of a unit it can wreck with its Devourers and the help of the spore in one turn. Your opponent then has a choice - actually divert forces to deal with it, or suffer a rampaging MC in their backline. This is rather easy to do with a pod, considering its rules for not mishaping, and also the Carnifex getting a 6" move out of it when it does land.

Yes, a Doom is cheaper. It's also in a more contested FoC slot. Yes, a Trygon is better for its points, but due to its sheer size, it's going to have extreme difficulty arriving outside of LoS, and due to not being in a pod, is harder to correct moving off target. A flyrant offers completely different tactics (and costs more to boot).

I'm again not saying there aren't better choices for the points cost, but a Dakkafex in a pod is still a wonderful diversionary unit if played right.