Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Trying to build a list to a budget. Around £150 budget.

The overall aim is to build a 1K list for every WHFB army so i gain experiance/fun of playing all the armys. plus 1k is easy to build paint within a reasonable time.

Army aim is to give me something to do in every phase, rather than concerntrating on being a purely shooting army for example.

Nothing bought so all up for discussion. 2 Lists for your consideration.

Please CC.

List 1

Lord
Liche High Preist-Dragonbane Gem

Hero
Tomb Prince-GW, Dragonhelm

Core
3 Chariots
20 Skeleton Archers

Warsphinx
Warsphinx

=999

List 2

Lord
LHP-Dragonbane Gem

Hero
Tomb Prince-Sword of Striking, Dragonhelm, Chariot

Core
4 Chariots-Standard, Musician
20 Skeleton Archers

3 Carrion
Warsphinx

=1002

Which do you think is better?
Mix up of the two?
Completely different angle?

CC please.

List 2 looks like it has more flexibility. List one is sphinx centric... get blasted by war engines and you are toast. The carrion at least give him something to worry about... OTOH, you are going to have a chariot charge from hell on list 2 also... should be fun.

I take it thats a vote for list 2 then.

I like the dual sphinx idea, especially at 1k, people are going to really struggle to combat that, unless they are gun heavy dwarfs or empire.

Having said that, the prince has much more purose in the second list with his unit of chariots, and as you say the carrion are a warmachine threat. Did think about swapping them for a scorpion, any thoughts?

Yes list 2. It is a tough call on the scorpion or the carrion. I would like both. If I have to choose though I think the carrion are less awesome but better at what they do.

i tried to break it down based on attacks vs points.

i get 3 carrion for 1 scorpion
thats 9 str4 attacks vs 4 str5?

Then:

Scorpion is only shot at for one turn (the turn it appears before charging into combat)
The carrion realistically should be charging turn 3 after two moves.

Very hard to choose. having both would be nice, but at 1k my points are spread pretty thin.

at 1k This what I like to run

LVL 2 earthing rod

19 archers FC

20 Archers

Warsphinx Firery

Necro Sphinx
Scorpion

I don't find the prince that valuable unless you are getting him in a unit where MWBD seriously matters, 30+ warriors at a minimum, and I: try to run 50.

I think the prince adds bite to the chariots no? though i appreciate what you mean about MWBD.

Pretty happy list 1 is not what i want.

However, here is a 3rd list i've been toying with:

Tomb Prince- GW, Dragonhelm, Enchanted Shield
Liche Preist- L2, Dispell Scroll

49 Skeleton Warriors- Full Command
20 Skeleton Archers

Warsphinx
Warsphinx

=1001

Better? or keep variety that list 2 offers with chariots and carrion?

No further thougts/opinions?

Well there are some errors in the lists for example in that last list you can't have 2 magic armors also the GW will replace the shield in combat so it is useless. Problem with a prince on a chariot is his chariot can actually be targeted and destroyed which slows down the unit if he is attached, also you are paying a lot to boost the weapon skill of a small number of skeletons. My Will be Done is much better in regular skeletons or tomb guard. I hope you are bringing fiery breath on the warsphinx cause you'll need them to kill troops so you don't crumble due to losing combats from things like ranks, you want to win combat and get rid of steadfast as soon as possible. I do like the 3rd list, though maybe swap a sphinx with a small unit of knights even if you have to trim that archer bunker down, 3 would be OK, 4+ better.

Here's my thoughts:

I'm not a huge fan of putting princes in chariot units. Chariots are one-shot-wonders, tending to either do their job with impact hits of flub everything and evaporate. A prince helps a bit with that, but he is MUCH better in a unit of skeletons where his MWBD can make them more durable over multiple rounds of combat.

Your skeleton-horde list is much better than the other one. I run that same unit and it's an absolute beast at this point level. It recently was triple charged by bretonnian knights, two in the flank and one in the rear, and won with 50% numbers left. It's also gone toe-to-toe with a warrior star.

That said, you need to give your prince more protection if you want him to stick around. Most people opt for the armour of destiny, or at least glittering scales. For weapons he's good with just a great weapon.

Drop the protection on your priest. It's a waste of points, since if he's taking hits it means you've probably lost anyways. His archer unit is protection enough, and if he's looking to be in danger just jump him out behind his unit.

You should really take a casket of souls, as well. Light of Death is a bloody awesome spell (and is unaffected by miscasts!), not to mention the extra d3 casting dice.

I'll reiterate what other people say about sphinges as well: against some lists they're tough as nails and hard for your opponent to deal with, but against cannons they just disappear. Also, and most importantly, they have very poor synergy with skeleton blocks. Skeletons BLEED combat res for the first couple turns, and charging constructs into a combat with them is a death sentence.

So I'd replace them with carrion and a casket.

i have been tweaking the 3rd list to look like this:

Tomb Prince- GW, Dragonhelm
Liche Preist- L2, Dispel Scroll

39 Skeletons- HW/S, FC
19 Skeletons- Bows

Warsphinx- Feiry Roar
Warsphinx- Feiry Roar

Based on my meta just about all bar dwarfs are going to really struggle to deal with 2 kittys.

i would like to get more protection for the prince but i can't see where i would find points. Suggestions?

Try dropping a few skeleton archers for glittering scales, maybe?

I'd also highly recommend finding space to turn that Lvl2 into a Lvl3 or 4. Those skeletons pack a punch with the right buffs, but with a lvl 2 it's a crap-shoot that you're actually going to get what you need.

For instance, if you're fighting WoC or Bretonnia you'll be in rough shape if you don't get Cursed Blades.

I'd suggest changing one of the Warsphinges to a Necrosphinx. The addition of flight will give you some much-needed speed, and he is a total beast at tanking stuff like Knights and enemy characters.

Hmmmmm, you guys make some good points guys.

Ok, tweaked list Mk 2:

LHP- Level 3

Tomb Prince- GW, Dragon Helm

39 Skeleton Warriors- FC
11 Archers

Warsphinx- Fiery Roar
Warsphinx- Fiery Roar

Total= 1001

The extra spell will prove useful on the LHP.
The archers are purely a bunker for the LHP, but with the right spells could still prove a useful little firebase.
I see the point about a necrosphinx being quicker but the warkitty is IMHO far far superior, especially from a damage output POV when you add in the fiery roar.

Thoughts please guys? And thanks for all the comments so far.

Perhaps lose Fiery Roar on one of the warsphinges, gain a few more archers. With only a 6+ regen, it won't take your opponent long to chew through them even with basic shooting, and you really want them to be within 12" of anything that needs buffing. It isn't easy at this level, really!

You're right, it is hard at this level.

Dropping 1 roar only gets me 3 archers, surely a 2D6 breath weapon will bring more to the table?

The only other thing i can think of would be to just take 1 big unit of archers with no warriors.

They would be able to advance with the kittys firing with no penalty, plus hitting combat they would still be WS5 due to prince and are onll giving up the armour save, seeing as they would gain effectively a parry save from the hierophant.

Thoughts on this idea?

I would go the other way. I tested, and if you drop the LHP to a Level 2 LP, and then drop the archers, you can get a unit of 72 Skeleton Warriors. That might just be impossible for people to kill. Of course, you will hit the usual TK problem - that you cannot afford to put the Warkitties in the combat with the skeleton warriors, due to the crumble rules.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I would go the other way. I tested, and if you drop the LHP to a Level 2 LP, and then drop the archers, you can get a unit of 72 Skeleton Warriors. That might just be impossible for people to kill. Of course, you will hit the usual TK problem - that you cannot afford to put the Warkitties in the combat with the skeleton warriors, due to the crumble rules.

72 Skeles eh? thats gonna look pretty daunting at 1k dropping 2 war kittys and a 74 man unit onto the table

The issues for me is the fact the Liche priest is at greater risk being in there.

One way to get around that is to get a Necrotect in there, so that the LP is in the second rank. Only works for one round of combat, and obviously you loose a load of skeletons for it, but something to consider.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
One way to get around that is to get a Necrotect in there, so that the LP is in the second rank. Only works for one round of combat, and obviously you loose a load of skeletons for it, but something to consider.

I did think about a necrotect but alas i cant fit him, a L2 and a tomb prince into the 250 hero limit.

LHP- Level 3

Tomb Prince- GW, Dragon Helm

39 Skeleton Warriors- FC
11 Archers

Warsphinx- Fiery Roar
Warsphinx- Fiery Roar

Total= 1001


So to comment on the list that you have here:

1) TK work best when played like a gunline army. This is because our units are so slow that it's really difficult to engage the enemy on our terms unless we force them to come to us. So things like catapults and the casket work great here.

The list you've built here has no such ranged threat, so you're going to have difficulties in this regard. Your warsphinges are fast, but your skeleton block will be painfully slow. Desert Wind can help with this, but a smart enemy will dispel it.

That isn't to say your list is BAD, but just that this is a difficulty you're going to have to learn to overcome. If you let your warsphinges move too quickly and isolate themselves you will be taken apart piecemeal. You also have nothing to deal with artillery (like trebuchets and bolt throwers) that will shred you long before you're able to get at them.

2) TK really depend on magic, and a level 2 just plain isn't enough. KB is necessary for taking on high armour, desert winds for letting your slow units keep up, dessication to take down high toughness enemies, etc. Even a level 3 is going to have troubles getting the right spells off.

I run a lvl 3 at 750 pts, and a level 4 at 1,000. I also take a casket at both those levels.

3) As others have said, do not EVER put your skeletons into combat with your warsphinges unless you are CERTAIN you can win outright. Your sphinges will evaporate from crumble otherwise.

It's one of the biggest weaknesses of the army you have here. It LOOKS like you have an anvil and two hammers, but what you really have here is three anvils. Don't forget that.

4) I think at this point you should lock your list and just play with what you have a few times. All the advice in the world isn't going to help you figure this out until you've played a few games to see where the weaknesses are.

I would definitely agree with number 4. Solid advice. Personally I prefer to run my TK as an aggressive force, using Snakeriders, chariots and the Necrosphinx, but I have heard many say that they prefer the gunline. Best bet - buy some stuff, get some games, see what you prefer.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I would definitely agree with number 4. Solid advice. Personally I prefer to run my TK as an aggressive force, using Snakeriders, chariots and the Necrosphinx, but I have heard many say that they prefer the gunline. Best bet - buy some stuff, get some games, see what you prefer.

Same here I usually run a "mounted" list to compete with the aggressive movement of some other armies ( also cuts down on the amount of turns you get blasted at by gunlines lol )

I usually run:
lvl2 with earthing rod
tomb herald with the chariots (though I always take the prince if I take tomb guard and stick him in there)
chariots
firey warshpinx
a unit of archers
Necro knights (entombed)
casket (this thing is a must)

I have also had luck with the bone giant with two hand weapons at 1000pts (as long as he doesn't get cannoned)

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I would definitely agree with number 4. Solid advice. Personally I prefer to run my TK as an aggressive force, using Snakeriders, chariots and the Necrosphinx, but I have heard many say that they prefer the gunline. Best bet - buy some stuff, get some games, see what you prefer.

Essentially, people either do aggressive with constructs or defensive with skeletons. You can mix-and-match a little bit, but by and large constructs and skeletons DO NOT MIX.


Of the lists I've seen people use successfully, I'd group them into the following categories:

1) Big blocks of skeletons backed up by catapults, a casket, a hierotitan, and plenty of magic (at least two LVL 4's, one using nehek the other light/death). I quite often see this list run as a light council, which is something I'm actually intending on doing. At 2500 it'd be two big blocks of skeletons, two catapults and a casket, some chaff (carrion and scorpions), and two archer bunkers with Khatep, a LVL 4 light, and 4 lvl 1 light, backed up with a hierotitan. S8 banishment FTW!

2) Arkhan, backed up by one or two caskets, two catapults, and units that don't need magic support (sphinges and knights, mostly).

3) Knight heavy, backed up by Nehek and Light with chariots filling up core.

4) Khalida archer stars with chaff, catapults, the works.

I like to use dual brick - Necroknights, Tomb Guard, both at 350+pts. The trick is working out how to get the necessary buffs on both units.

I swear, when I finish painting these guys, I'm gonna switch to an army where you don't spend the whole game worrying about buffs.

I really like the buffs. It turns your army into this modular swiss army knife that you can reconfigure on the fly.

Need KB? Cool your giant skeleton block now has KB. Give extra shots to your archers, or +2 attacks to your knights. Make your Guard ASF. It's why I love my huge skeleton blocks, since they can survive enough rounds on their own to let me load up all the buffs on whichever unit is fighting the thing I need dead sooner.