Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey,

Played a game recently and two small points came up.

1) I remember that you can't draw Line of Sight through close combat, but I couldn't find any references to this in the rule book. I had a bunch of horrors fighting a single CSM Sorcerer and an Obliterator was tall enough to see a target over the swirling melee. (Well, their heads, which is enough IMO). I couldn't find the passage in the rulebook that says, "No drawing Line of Sight through combat" so I let it slide (although, to be fair, I didn't want to spend a lot of time looking it up :-) ).

2) When drawing Line-of-Sight to a Flying Monstrous Creature, is it still "True Line of Sight"? Most of those models, like a Flying Daemon Prince or Lord of Change are on the ground (even when Swooping!) At our local shop, we have a nice big "rock" piece of terrain that's about 7" high and ovoid with 8"x4" diameters, so this blocked LoS to Kairos Fateweaver while he was Swooping (one of the smaller FMC's). Is that "un-cool"?

 loreweaver wrote:
Hey,

Played a game recently and two small points came up.

1) I remember that you can't draw Line of Sight through close combat, but I couldn't find any references to this in the rule book. I had a bunch of horrors fighting a single CSM Sorcerer and an Obliterator was tall enough to see a target over the swirling melee. (Well, their heads, which is enough IMO). I couldn't find the passage in the rulebook that says, "No drawing Line of Sight through combat" so I let it slide (although, to be fair, I didn't want to spend a lot of time looking it up :-) ).

You remember wrong - that rule doesn't exist.

2) When drawing Line-of-Sight to a Flying Monstrous Creature, is it still "True Line of Sight"? Most of those models, like a Flying Daemon Prince or Lord of Change are on the ground (even when Swooping!) At our local shop, we have a nice big "rock" piece of terrain that's about 7" high and ovoid with 8"x4" diameters, so this blocked LoS to Kairos Fateweaver while he was Swooping (one of the smaller FMC's). Is that "un-cool"?

Yes, you use TLOS against all models.
If you think it's unfair, start firing las pistols at T9 Swooping FMCs. They fall to the ground from anything.

Thanks rigeld2.

I think I must've had that lodged in my brain from a previous edition, perhaps 3rd even :-P

I didn't clarify above, it was my Monster I was hiding behind the rock :-)

 loreweaver wrote:
Hey,

Played a game recently and two small points came up.

1) I remember that you can't draw Line of Sight through close combat, but I couldn't find any references to this in the rule book. I had a bunch of horrors fighting a single CSM Sorcerer and an Obliterator was tall enough to see a target over the swirling melee. (Well, their heads, which is enough IMO). I couldn't find the passage in the rulebook that says, "No drawing Line of Sight through combat" so I let it slide (although, to be fair, I didn't want to spend a lot of time looking it up :-) ).

This was true on 4th edition, since 5th they lifted the restriction and now CC doesn't block LoS.

2) When drawing Line-of-Sight to a Flying Monstrous Creature, is it still "True Line of Sight"? Most of those models, like a Flying Daemon Prince or Lord of Change are on the ground (even when Swooping!) At our local shop, we have a nice big "rock" piece of terrain that's about 7" high and ovoid with 8"x4" diameters, so this blocked LoS to Kairos Fateweaver while he was Swooping (one of the smaller FMC's). Is that "un-cool"?

Yeah, it is kinda wrong that if a FMC is allegedly flying it can claim cover from a fence, but that is how the rules are written, nothing in the BRB says that they can't claim cover or are visible at all times while swooping. They are swooping a few millimeters above ground, that makes them hard to hit.

If you're a flying giant thingy trying to get close to those guys with guns, do you A: fly high up where they can hit you, or B: stick to cover when you can.

When theres no clear rule, go with common sense. (also, theres a clear rule here as stated already)

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yeah, it is kinda wrong that if a FMC is allegedly flying it can claim cover from a fence, but that is how the rules are written, nothing in the BRB says that they can't claim cover or are visible at all times while swooping. They are swooping a few millimeters above ground, that makes them hard to hit.

I'll make you a deal. My FMC will only claim cover based on LOS (like a vehicle) however it will never have to take Grounding tests.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yeah, it is kinda wrong that if a FMC is allegedly flying it can claim cover from a fence, but that is how the rules are written, nothing in the BRB says that they can't claim cover or are visible at all times while swooping. They are swooping a few millimeters above ground, that makes them hard to hit.

I'll make you a deal. My FMC will only claim cover based on LOS (like a vehicle) however it will never have to take Grounding tests.

This. Forever until the end of time, this.

When your Stormraven can take a Glancing Hit on a 1 or a 2 after being hit with a las pistol I'll mount my FMCs to flying stands.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:

 Lord Yayula wrote:
Yeah, it is kinda wrong that if a FMC is allegedly flying it can claim cover from a fence, but that is how the rules are written, nothing in the BRB says that they can't claim cover or are visible at all times while swooping. They are swooping a few millimeters above ground, that makes them hard to hit.

I'll make you a deal. My FMC will only claim cover based on LOS (like a vehicle) however it will never have to take Grounding tests.

This. Forever until the end of time, this.

When your Stormraven can take a Glancing Hit on a 1 or a 2 after being hit with a las pistol I'll mount my FMCs to flying stands.

I would gladly trade that for the ability to Zoom at ground level taking cover, or being out of Line of Sight entirely, from ruins or other terrain.

I seriously doubt you actually would. Who needs anti-tank weapons when I can kill the thing without every rolling a glance?

rigeld2 wrote:
I seriously doubt you actually would. Who needs anti-tank weapons when I can kill the thing without every rolling a glance?

If it means I can get my stormravens 4+ cover, or out of Line of sight altogether I would gladly, as once they dump their payload they are generally ignored for the rest of the game as they are no longer a huge threat, the Terminator librarian and his TH/SS assault terminators and/or Furioso dreadnought draws all the fire because these two things will do more damage than a SR with Multi Melta and Assault cannon will.