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I play GK and have literally never fielded an Incinerator before (except on the Dreadknight). After seeing how fun and tough a Vulcan list is for Vanilla Marines, I was curious if anybody out there has faced or used an Incinerator-heavy GK list? I'm talking Purgation squad with 4 Incinerators delivered in a Razorback or Land Raider, Interceptors with Incinerators, DK's with Incinerator, GM with Incinerator, etc.

My thought for this type of list is that we may not get the twin-linked nature that Vulcan gives others, our Incinerators are better than Vanilla Marines' flamers.

Thoughts?

I like Purifiers with incinerators in a Storm Raven.


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but I wouldn't ignore Psycannons. Still optimal, though I think a few Incinerators is pretty awesome.

I have always used Incinerators as well as psicannons even tough I fielded about 2 psicannons for every incinerator.

+1 to LValx for Incinerators out of stormravens. I especially liked a mastercrafted Incinerator on the IC I flew in with my termis/puris/palas. That way I had the option to split off the IC to engage another unit and the incinerator is a wonderful tool to 'even the numbers' a little.

I guess you are aware that heavy Incinerators on DKs (especially shunting ones) have always been pretty awesome.

Instead of a purgation squads I would always prefer to bring interceptor squads with flamers. A razorback in most cases isn't tough enough to get the purgation squad where he wants to be with his flamers. A LR would do a better job but a shunting move is still superior in delivering the flaming death.

I also love LR redeemers with psyflame ammunition =)

+1 to psyflame flamestorm cannons, there's nothing like destroying a vehicle with a FLAMER.

Thanks for the input so far, any of you know of or have tried running an almost all-Incinerator list? If not, what is the most you have fielded in a game and how did it work out? I plan on playtesting an Incinerator list myself, but until I get the chance it'd be good to hear from the dakkanaughts.

I would suggest against it, especially if you are taking 1-2 Dreadknights with Heavy Incinerators. Even if you aren't, don't take them.
GK have loads (LOADS!!!) of STR5 24" in threat range weapons. I can't imagine you'd ever be like "I just need more ways to deal with hordes!" The Heavy Incinerator fills a unique role: burninating specific objective campers out of cover. You don't need 6 screw drivers when you only have three screws to screw.

To check back in with you all, I took an Incinerator-heavy list to a club tourney with a small group of about 6 seasoned players (4 of them played in the Adepticon team tourney this weekend, and went 6-2-2 with their list). I ran Mordrak with a full contingent of Ghosts, 6 or 8 (can't remember) Purgators with 4 incinerators in a Land Raider, 10 Termies with 2 psycannons on foot, 6 Purifiers with 2 Incinerators in a Razorback, a Dreadknight with a Heavy Incinerator, and 5 Strikers manning an ADL with a Quad Gun. The Purgation squad was the MVP overall, toasting so many units it was ridiculous. The Purifiers also did great. I took second, losing only a tight game to the Tau player (I need to read their Codex, it's pretty gnarly). I put my stamp of approval on it after this weekend, and challenge you GK players to get out there and torch everybody!

 Micawb3r wrote:
I have always used Incinerators as well as psicannons even tough I fielded about 2 psicannons for every incinerator.

+1 to LValx for Incinerators out of stormravens. I especially liked a mastercrafted Incinerator on the IC I flew in with my termis/puris/palas. That way I had the option to split off the IC to engage another unit and the incinerator is a wonderful tool to 'even the numbers' a little.

I guess you are aware that heavy Incinerators on DKs (especially shunting ones) have always been pretty awesome.

Instead of a purgation squads I would always prefer to bring interceptor squads with flamers. A razorback in most cases isn't tough enough to get the purgation squad where he wants to be with his flamers. A LR would do a better job but a shunting move is still superior in delivering the flaming death.

I also love LR redeemers with psyflame ammunition =)

FYI, master -crafted incinerators don't do anything special. Only twinlinked weapons make template attacks reroll wounds.

I see two ways of fielding them effectively, this means closing the distance quick enough to begin the bbq. Purgation squad in a storm raven or interceptors. Also my GM most of the time carries an incinerator (I know it is a waste of his BS:6 and the chance to precision shoot things, but it is dirt cheap).

Interceptors with incinerators are hilarious for juke + double flame template.

@ Capamaru: That's the beauty of the cheap purgation squad: you can rush them up the board right away, or hold them in a vehicle as a "Surprise! You're toast!" unit the last few turns. If they die as an early suicide unit, you've only lost a hundred points. If you don't get to torch something until the last turn, it's still worth 100 points because they are guaranteed to kill more than that in one round of torching if they get all their templates over one unit.

I will probably also try a GM with Incinerator though. Sure, you can't take advantage of BS6, but if you take a psycannon (cuz a BS6 stormbolter is a bit of a waste too) there's 40 or so points more as well. I can't wait to try an Incinerator-GM with psycho/rad 'nades and maybe brain mines too. DS in with a full contingent of Termies or Purifiers and dare somebody to get into cc with you.

@ Stoffer: agreed that Incinerators on Interceptors is awesome. The only thing that sucks is that Interceptors are already a high points cost unit(though it is admittedly it is fair). Now you add about 20 points per model for an Incinerator, and they get points-hungry. A full squad with two Incinerators would be a scary thing to face indeed. Could even force your opponent to reserve a bunch of squishy troops first turn. Intimidation!

 Homeskillet wrote:
@ Capamaru: That's the beauty of the cheap purgation squad: you can rush them up the board right away, or hold them in a vehicle as a "Surprise! You're toast!" unit the last few turns. If they die as an early suicide unit, you've only lost a hundred points. If you don't get to torch something until the last turn, it's still worth 100 points because they are guaranteed to kill more than that in one round of torching if they get all their templates over one unit.

I will probably also try a GM with Incinerator though. Sure, you can't take advantage of BS6, but if you take a psycannon (cuz a BS6 stormbolter is a bit of a waste too) there's 40 or so points more as well. I can't wait to try an Incinerator-GM with psycho/rad 'nades and maybe brain mines too. DS in with a full contingent of Termies or Purifiers and dare somebody to get into cc with you.

@ Stoffer: agreed that Incinerators on Interceptors is awesome. The only thing that sucks is that Interceptors are already a high points cost unit(though it is admittedly it is fair). Now you add about 20 points per model for an Incinerator, and they get points-hungry. A full squad with two Incinerators would be a scary thing to face indeed. Could even force your opponent to reserve a bunch of squishy troops first turn. Intimidation!

Just for gaks and giggles, i was toying around with a list that had 3 dreadknights and 3 squads of interceptors, all with incinerators. Not much of an all comers list, but it certainly alpha strikes some lists off the board.

That would and probably should scare the bejeezus out of any xenos army, and would make any Marine player a sad panda, lol.

The incinerator is a weapon that is good against a very specific target. Mostly Infantry with poor saves.

You can stack on some wounds onto dudes with a 3+ or a 2+, but it is not that effective.


The Psycannon is good against lots of different targets. Tanks, Monsters, Flyers, Low saves.


You already have S5 storm bolters to deal with large horde units. With 24" mobile firepower you should be able to keep away from them if they are combat oriented as well.

Adding an incinerator to GK unit makes them better against a unit type they already are good against.
Adding a Psycannon to a GK unit makes them better against unit types they could not hurt otherwise.



Secondly, a lot of people want to use their incinerators as part of a close combat unit. There are a few issues with that.

Shooting before you assault is usually not a good idea. You risk killing enough models that the enemy is out of assault range OR wil fail a morale test and fall back out of assault range. With the changes to ATSKNF, falling back is really not a bad thing for Marines anymore.


Also, as stated above, incinerators are good against horde units. GK units do not want to be in combat with horde units. GK are good in combat because they have a few low AP attacks. That is exactly what you do not want against a horde unit.

Purifier however ARE good against horde units. Do your purifiers really need more help against horde units, especially if it might make them not make it to the assault where they can use cleansing flame?




Personally, I feel that the best method for delivering Incinerators is in a purgation squad.

Your incinerator unit is going to get very close to the enemy. You want them to deal maximum damage and be cheap enough to be a bit expendable. Purgation squads fit that description.

As a small but high damage unit, you will want to give them some kind of transport. A Rhino or Razorback are both good options.

Another transport idea to consider is the storm raven. The purgation unit can hop out of the back without forcing the Raven to hover and take a lot of damage. They can still shoot after DS out the back as well. You are only expecting the incinerator unit to get one good shooting phase, so it is not an issue for them to be in a transport with no firepoints.


If you play in a metagame where there are a lot of hordes, and minimal Flyers, Tanks and Monsters, then it might be worthwhile to consider taking a few more incinerators over some psycannons.

I don't think I've ever disagreed with Svendrex before, as he's always spot-on. First time for everything! I would make the case for the Incinerator versus the Stormbolter in an "anti-horde" role. Yes, two shots at S5 are great. I certainly won't complain. However, you have to roll to hit on 3's, then most likely wound on 3's (on average). With the Incinerator, I've never popped out of a vehicle or finished a shunt move in which I wasn't able to get at least 4 dudes under the template. That's 4 auto-hits, wounding on 2's.

I agree that shooting before assaulting can really screw you bad. However, GK in particular are such a hybrid shooty/assaulty army that I've found that to be successful I have to whittle down the enemy with shooting before getting into combat. I'm not necessarily worried I'm always going to lose combat and get wiped against a bigger force, but it's too easy to get tarpitted. Being outnumbered often, I need to crush a unit and move on to the next one in quick order.

"Adding an incinerator to GK unit makes them better against a unit type they already are good against. Adding a Psycannon to a GK unit makes them better against unit types they could not hurt otherwise." Agreed! However, troops are needed to hold objectives, and Incinerators absolutely wreck anybody's troops. Even Termies will roll a 1 if you make them throw enough dice.

In urban battlefields (especially in cities of death games) Incinerators are pretty much a lawn mower. Any unit of troops short of Immortals and MEQ/TEQs is barbeque in moments, and even those can potentially have to roll so many dice that that wound on 2s and 3s that many of them will drop anyway. Psycannons are more generally useful, but in cover heavy maps the Incinerator will bring your enemy enormous amounts of pain.

Pair up with kitted out Redeemers for more "where is your cover save now?" fun. Fire is the Emperor's gift to you in CoD, make sure to share this gift as much as possible in such games while playing "Trogdor the Burninator" in the background.

While I agree that there is plenty of S5-6 shooting available to GK, I would possibly consider a few Incinerators spread throughout the unit. Not only do they remove the obstacle of cover, but they add a significant amount of damage to any Overwatch fire that the unit may have to do. D3 S6 hits instead of a possible 2 S4-5 shots is pretty good in my opinion. Seeing as Purgation Squads can take 4 Incinerators for free, you could consider taking a squad of these, taking 4, and loading them in a Rhino. Bound to cause a fair bit of damage to units camped on objectives, etc.