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I found this interesting. On the warp storm table one of the results is

"Randomly select one non-vehicle enemy psyker on the table that does not have the daemon special rule, the psycher must pass a leadership test on 3D6 or be removed as a casualty"

it then goes on to explain how it gets replaced by a Herald but that direct quote is the important bit. Now my question is, how does this affect a brotherhood of psykers? In the rulebook it says

"A unit with this special rule counts as a Mastery Level 1 psyker"

So the whole unit is treated as 1 psyker... leading me to believe the whole unit would be removed as a casualty... the only argument against this is a few lines down where it says

"If the unit suffers the perils of the warp, or any other attack that specifically targets psykers, it is resolved against the character if there is one (and he is alive) or against a random non-character model in the unit if there is no character (or he is dead)"

My issue with that argument is nowhere does it define this result on the warp storm table as an attack... it is an event that takes place. There aretmany types of attacks (close combat attack, psychic attack etc.) But this definitely is not one of them... it is also fair to say that nowhere in the warp storm rule does it say to "target" a psyker... it just says select one...

So my conclusion is since the "daemonic possesion" result on the warp storm table is not defined as an "attack" and does not "target" a unit it does indeed cause an entire brotherhood of psykers to be removed as a casualty due to the fact that a unit with that rule "counts as a mastery level 1 psyker"

im strictly talking rules as written too, its quite likely they were intended to be taken different but I follow the rules, as they are written... what do people think?

That you are wrong and that it is an attack, both by grammar and implication.

The continuation of the perils line you quoted implies that the perils IS in fact an attack of a type. By that implication, so is your warp storm.

It's the warp attacking, and the attack may be mindless and simply hit whomever. But in a way it is an attack.

It is clearly an attack, as it is causing damage (or trying to)

It kills off the justicar, knight of the flame, etc.

Hate to slightly hijack, but would the same be true for wounds caused by the Sisters of Battle Condemnor Boltgun since it has the Psi-Shock rule?

or Imotekhs storm? I cant remember what the conclusion was on that

Yes, any attack that is made to make a psyker pay for his dabbling in the arts is only gonna take out one member of the Brotherhood of Psykers unit, unless you can find one that expressedly says it plows through brotherhoods

I suspect you may be trying too hard to 'interpret' the warp storm's ability as a non-attack. Given it's effects I feel it is pretty clear that is incorrect, in that it is a form of attack.

That said, I do not believe 'attack' has ever been formally defined as one specific thing, as you've noticed there are several different kinds of attack. I believe this also includes 'Perils of the Warp' as they are explicitly listed in the same line.

 Juggalo17 wrote:

My issue with that argument is nowhere does it define this result on the warp storm table as an attack... it is an event that takes place.

Daemon dex, pg 27 wrote: The Dark Prince Thirsts: Roll a D6 for each unengaged friendly unit that contains one or more Daemons of Khorne, and each unengaged enemy unit on the battlefield. On a 6, that unit suffers D6 S6 hits...

I wouldn't exactly define bloodletters as friendly, bob.

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:

 Juggalo17 wrote:

My issue with that argument is nowhere does it define this result on the warp storm table as an attack... it is an event that takes place.

Daemon dex, pg 27 wrote: The Dark Prince Thirsts: Roll a D6 for each unengaged friendly unit that contains one or more Daemons of Khorne, and each unengaged enemy unit on the battlefield. On a 6, that unit suffers D6 S6 hits...

I wouldn't exactly define bloodletters as friendly, bob.

And how are we supposed to decide who is engaged and who isn't? Space Marines deserve love too!

 Juggalo17 wrote:
I found this interesting. On the warp storm table one of the results is

"Randomly select one non-vehicle enemy psyker on the table that does not have the daemon special rule, the psycher must pass a leadership test on 3D6 or be removed as a casualty"

it then goes on to explain how it gets replaced by a Herald but that direct quote is the important bit. Now my question is, how does this affect a brotherhood of psykers? In the rulebook it says

"A unit with this special rule counts as a Mastery Level 1 psyker"

So the whole unit is treated as 1 psyker... leading me to believe the whole unit would be removed as a casualty... the only argument against this is a few lines down where it says

"If the unit suffers the perils of the warp, or any other attack that specifically targets psykers, it is resolved against the character if there is one (and he is alive) or against a random non-character model in the unit if there is no character (or he is dead)"

My issue with that argument is nowhere does it define this result on the warp storm table as an attack... it is an event that takes place. There aretmany types of attacks (close combat attack, psychic attack etc.) But this definitely is not one of them... it is also fair to say that nowhere in the warp storm rule does it say to "target" a psyker... it just says select one...

So my conclusion is since the "daemonic possesion" result on the warp storm table is not defined as an "attack" and does not "target" a unit it does indeed cause an entire brotherhood of psykers to be removed as a casualty due to the fact that a unit with that rule "counts as a mastery level 1 psyker"

im strictly talking rules as written too, its quite likely they were intended to be taken different but I follow the rules, as they are written... what do people think?

Pretty much that, it's an effect on the squad and hence the Character takes the hit.
It would be really nice that it removes the entire squad since we need all the help against GKs, and seeing the entire Paladin squad gone due to one roll would be hilarious

 Makutsu wrote:

 Juggalo17 wrote:
I found this interesting. On the warp storm table one of the results is

"Randomly select one non-vehicle enemy psyker on the table that does not have the daemon special rule, the psycher must pass a leadership test on 3D6 or be removed as a casualty"

it then goes on to explain how it gets replaced by a Herald but that direct quote is the important bit. Now my question is, how does this affect a brotherhood of psykers? In the rulebook it says

"A unit with this special rule counts as a Mastery Level 1 psyker"

So the whole unit is treated as 1 psyker... leading me to believe the whole unit would be removed as a casualty... the only argument against this is a few lines down where it says

"If the unit suffers the perils of the warp, or any other attack that specifically targets psykers, it is resolved against the character if there is one (and he is alive) or against a random non-character model in the unit if there is no character (or he is dead)"

My issue with that argument is nowhere does it define this result on the warp storm table as an attack... it is an event that takes place. There aretmany types of attacks (close combat attack, psychic attack etc.) But this definitely is not one of them... it is also fair to say that nowhere in the warp storm rule does it say to "target" a psyker... it just says select one...

So my conclusion is since the "daemonic possesion" result on the warp storm table is not defined as an "attack" and does not "target" a unit it does indeed cause an entire brotherhood of psykers to be removed as a casualty due to the fact that a unit with that rule "counts as a mastery level 1 psyker"

im strictly talking rules as written too, its quite likely they were intended to be taken different but I follow the rules, as they are written... what do people think?

Pretty much that, it's an effect on the squad and hence the Character takes the hit.
It would be really nice that it removes the entire squad since we need all the help against GKs, and seeing the entire Paladin squad gone due to one roll would be hilarious

I think it's bad enough that you can one-shot Draigo using this random roll, no matter where he is on the field. Just poof, your biggest guy is gone. I wish I had a way of doing that to abbadon.
Obviously, in a GK army there is a lot of other stuff that can take it instead of him on the randomisation, unlike normal space marines where your expensive Librarian is pretty much it... But still. Ow.

Oh... Poor Draigo...

Play nids with Flyrants, Tervigons and Doom... and watch as they just pop.

Ya against grey knight you would have to randomize vs which unit the roll the dice and remove the character first then a lowly noob if no character is around. This is how I would play it. The entire squad would not be gone. If your still not convinced how many die on a normal perils? 1 right same rule applies here.

I actually rolled this result on the Warp Storm table 3 times in the first 3 turns in my last game. Too bad I was playing against Necrons :(

Hmm, would this be considered a perils roll for the purposes of a Farseer's ghosthelm?

It's not perils. Hence no save from ghosthelm

 BetrayTheWorld wrote:
Hmm, would this be considered a perils roll for the purposes of a Farseer's ghosthelm?

No, as it is clearly not a normal PotW, but the added danger from fighting a full daemon army

Absolutely no RAW way that ghosthelm would work

How about this one seeing as this is a BoS thread.

From what I know you nominate one guy to cast the psyhic power correct?, could I nominate the character in the squad to be casting the PSA therefore making all 6's precision shots?.

I.e a squad of horrors with the Iridescent horror upgrade which makes him a character, could he be the one doing the shooting?

I think for now there's no RAW about this, but according to other PSA units, such as Paladins, the Psyker blobs from IG.

You nominate a model to do the shooting.
Hence you could do that.

Remember that GKs have their own Brotherhood of Psykers Army Rule, which supercedes the BRB BoP. It's basically the same rule, but in the GK book, it names specifically who is the "psyker" for psychic tests; and in this case points out who would be targeted by the Warp Storm.

MarkyMark wrote:
How about this one seeing as this is a BoS thread.

From what I know you nominate one guy to cast the psyhic power correct?, could I nominate the character in the squad to be casting the PSA therefore making all 6's precision shots?.

I.e a squad of horrors with the Iridescent horror upgrade which makes him a character, could he be the one doing the shooting?

No. You do not pick a particular model to use the BoS rule. The unit as a whole is using the power. LOS can be measured from any model, but that does not imply that any other characteristics of that model are being used.