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It seems like a lifetime of seeing this:

<New Thread> This is my Space Wolf List:

1-2 Rune Priest

1-2 Rifleman Dreads.

2-4 Grey Hunter Packs [Usually 5 with a Melta Gun in a Razorback or 10 in a Pod with Melta x2]

3x Long Fangs each with 5x Missile Launchers

Followed by Is this a good list?

YES!!!! This is a good Competitive list for the love of Russ YES!!!

But it is SOOOOOOOOO!!!!! BORING!!!!!
I have gotten to the point were if I see a “Space Wolf List” there is a 80% chance this is what we are going to be looking at. And half the time is seems the Poster Post it as if it is an original idea.

We have one of the most Dynamic and Customizable Codex out there. I would love to see some variety with these list.
Were are the Wolf Scouts, were are the Lone Wolves, Were are the Land Speeders, Were are the Wolves, Were are the Blood Claws!

I know they are not the most “Competitive” units in every game, but they are useful and most Importantly FUN TO USE.

There is nothing like the expression on your opponents face then 15 Blood Claws come Charging out of your Land Raider Crusader being lead by your Wolf Priest into his Boys Mob holding the key objective.

Or

When that Lone Wolf Charges the full Brood of Genestealers by himself and survives three turns.

I can’t remember the last time [other than the games I am in] were thing like this happen. This is what should be making the game exiting for me, not:

Turn One:
Well Long Fang one fires 2 Missile Launchers into your HQ and the 3 Missile Launchers into your Guardsmen.
My Two Drop Pods land and Melta your Russ

Turn One:
Well Long Fang one fires 2 Missile Launchers into your HQ and the 3 Missile Launchers into your Guardsmen.
My Drop Pods lands and Melta your Russ

Turn One:
Well Long Fang one fires 2 Missile Launchers into your HQ and the 3 Missile Launchers into your Guardsmen.
My Drop Pods lands and Melta your Russ


I want to see things like this:

Turn 1
Well my Long Fangs put 2 Las-Cannons and two Krak Missiles into Your Hive Tyrant while the Heavy Bolter at that spore mine that is too close.
My Grey Hunters that just podded in fire at that Fex.

Turn 2
Well my Long Fangs fire their 2 Las Cannons at the Hive tyrant while the two Flack Missiles and the Heavy Bolter fire at the Genestealers along with the Grey Hunters.
My Lone Wolf Assaults the Fex

Turn 3
The Long Fangs now return to firing everything at the Hive Tyrant along with my Wolf Scouts that just came out of Reserves behind it.

[Now we go to Turn 5]

You Stupid Lone Wolf would you quit killing thing and Die! I don’t want top lose another game because you wont die!

Note: All of the things I listed have happened to me.
One more thought: 3x Long Fang Missile Launcher x5 SPAM is one of the reasons a lot of people roll their eyes when you start to pull out your army.

I am turning my Rant mode off and am going to ask the impossible.
Lets talk about this without getting into this Unit is Better that Unit and please no Mathhammer.
I will one more concede that that above formula is a game winner, but it does not have to be the only one.

 Anpu42 wrote:
It seems like a lifetime of seeing this:

<New Thread> This is my Space Wolf List:

1-2 Rune Priest

1-2 Rifleman Dreads.

2-4 Grey Hunter Packs [Usually 5 with a Melta Gun in a Razorback or 10 in a Pod with Melta x2]

3x Long Fangs each with 5x Missile Launchers

Followed by Is this a good list?

YES!!!! This is a good Competitive list for the love of Russ YES!!!

But it is SOOOOOOOOO!!!!! BORING!!!!!

I agree, I made a list with 3 Blood Claws Packs of 9 Claws + 1 WG on Rhino, with Flames, 5 Wolf Guards in Termies Armor with combi-plasma and claw, Rune Priest 'cause I love the model (yeah, Gandalf the Grey!) and ONE unit of LF, 'cause playin' against Tyr and Ravenwing I need Missiles. But is a 1000 pts list, if I had more points I'd put a unit of TWC for sure, or SC packs.

Welcome to 2009 I guess. This is true with most competitive lists - people find one or two things that are really strong and just exploit them to the fullest. There's nothing inherently wrong with it (if it's what you and your opponent are looking for), but it does make a bland and boring list that goes against the spirit of the game.

In other words, don't go to the army list section if you don't want to see these. Just do what you want.

Welcome to a codex for Space Wolves that incentivizes playing more like Iron Warriors or Imperial Guard than anything resembling Space Vikings

 Vaktathi wrote:
Welcome to a codex for Space Wolves that incentivizes playing more like Iron Warriors or Imperial Guard than anything resembling Space Vikings

Actually I'd say it fights more like Ultramarines then Iron Warriors, at least they would have some tanks!

 Brother SRM wrote:
Welcome to 2009 I guess. This is true with most competitive lists - people find one or two things that are really strong and just exploit them to the fullest. There's nothing inherently wrong with it (if it's what you and your opponent are looking for), but it does make a bland and boring list that goes against the spirit of the game.

I actualy like reading the list to hopeing to get some ideas for other armies and as a advid Space Wolf Player I can't help looking at them.

I usually throw in a couple of gimmicks in my lists. My Terminator Lone Wolf gets regular table time, and I have in fact had him not die and give my enemy that point. I also am keen on using Saga of the Hunter with my Wolf Priest, a squad of Grey Hunters with Plasmas and maybe a Wolf Guard Terminator with a heavy weapon. Much more satisfying than Wolf Scouts.

This is a Typical List for me, and I win with it.

2000 Pts - Space Wolves Roster

Rune Priest in Power Armour, 150 pts (Bolt Pistol; Runic Weapon; Master of Runes; Warlord; 6E Psychic: Divination)
Long Fangs Pack, 180 pts (Heavy Bolter x1; Lascannon x2; Missile Launcher x2)
.Long Fang Pack Leader (Infantry (Bolt Pistol; Power Axe)

Lone Wolf Muzzle w/ Mark of the Wulfen, 85 pts (Power Armour; Close Combat Weapon; Storm Shield)
>2x Fenrisian Wolf)

Lone Wolf Blitz w/ Mark of the Wulfen, 85 pts (Power Armour; Close Combat Weapon; Storm Shield)
>2x Fenrisian Wolf)

Wolf Priest (Fang of Morkai; Wolf Amulet; Runic Armour; Wolf Tail Talisman; Wolftooth Necklace; Crozius Arcanum; Plasma Pistol; Saga of the Wolfkin)

Blood Claws Pack, 240 pts (Bolt Pistol x13; Close Combat Weapon x14; Flamer x2; Power Sword)

Grey Hunters Pack, 210 pts (Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x8; Boltgun x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasma gun x2)
>Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen (Bolt Pistol; Boltgun; Close Combat Weapon)
>Grey Hunter w/ Power Fist (Bolt Pistol; Boltgun; Power Fist)

Grey Hunters Pack, 210 pts (Wolf Standard; Bolt Pistol x8; Boltgun x6; Close Combat Weapon x8; Plasma gun x2)
>Grey Hunter w/ Mark of the Wulfen (Bolt Pistol; Boltgun; Close Combat Weapon)
>Grey Hunter w/ Power Fist (Bolt Pistol; Boltgun; Power Fist)

Land Speeder Squadron 3x Land Speeders, 270 pts (Heavy Bolter x3; Typhoon Missile Launcher x3)

Wolf Guard Battle Leader 145 pts (Runic Armour; Wolftooth Necklace; Combi-Meltagun; Power Maul)
>2x Fenrisian Wolf
Wolf Scouts Pack, 260 pts (Melta Bombs; Bolt Guns x8; Close Combat Weapon x9; Plasma Pistol x2; Plasma gun)
>Wolf Scout w/ Mark of the Wulfen (Bolt Gun; Close Combat Weapon)

I totally agree, but can't deny the utility of a 140 point 5x ML unit.

I do however like different units.

The list I've been hoping to finish modeling up is led by a Wolf Priest (who is my warlord, that's right up front, taking risks) with Saga of the Hunter, leading a squad of plasma-hunters with an extra plasma pistol. They outflank to bring the pain from the sides to hopefully cap an objective and get linebreaker.

I also feature a Lone Wolf with TDA, Chainfist and SS just to stomp around and chainsaw things... with his fist.

I have 3 LF squads, but only 2 are full ML, the other is 5x HB, which is really unpopular, but 15 S5 shots do a lot of damage to the right targets.

I also take a squad of 3 Wolf Guard in TDA with combi weps in a pod (is that unusual?)

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Welcome to a codex for Space Wolves that incentivizes playing more like Iron Warriors or Imperial Guard than anything resembling Space Vikings

Actually I'd say it fights more like Ultramarines then Iron Warriors, at least they would have some tanks!

For the longest time they did until 6E made them tinderboxes. I remember seeing lots of mechanized SW formations, with lots of units running in multiples of 3 (6 usually) and half a dozen Razorback IFV's and nearly two dozen long range AT guns and some meltaguns to sprinkle in

I was always thinking to myself "man...what perfect IW armies these would make..."

But could never bring myself to hop books

 More Dakka wrote:
I totally agree, but can't deny the utility of a 140 point 5x ML unit.

I do however like different units.

The list I've been hoping to finish modeling up is led by a Wolf Priest (who is my warlord, that's right up front, taking risks) with Saga of the Hunter, leading a squad of plasma-hunters with an extra plasma pistol. They outflank to bring the pain from the sides to hopefully cap an objective and get linebreaker.

I also feature a Lone Wolf with TDA, Chainfist and SS just to stomp around and chainsaw things... with his fist.

I have 3 LF squads, but only 2 are full ML, the other is 5x HB, which is really unpopular, but 15 S5 shots do a lot of damage to the right targets.

I also take a squad of 3 Wolf Guard in TDA with combi weps in a pod (is that unusual?)

I actually ran something similar at a tourney and won the whole shebang.

Wolf Priest w/ SotH
Rune Priest
Lone Wolf (CF/SS, TDA)
Lone Wolf (TH/SS, TDA)
10 GH - Melta x2, Standard, MotW
10 GH - Plasma x2, Standard, MotW
Long Fang Pack (5 ML)
Long Fang Pack (5 ML)
Long Fang Pack (5 ML)
Bastion with Icarus
Celestine
10 Sisters with M/MM
8 Seraphim w/ 2HF, MB
8 Retributors w/ 4 HB, Storm Bolter (SS), Simulacrum


It was a mean, mean list. But, of course, I spammed LF. Hate me.

Breaking news, Phail Kelly codices have godawful internal balance and competitive lists from them end up looking virtually identical.

I like the [A Rant] tag. I think it should be a thing.

Back to the point. Unfortunately this is not limited to GK. I had a similar rant the other day. Yes is does get boring, but meh, not much you can do other than not play those cookie cutter lists yourself.

I do also mix it up a bit, dong thins like replace the Scouts with Thunderwolves, Wolf Guard to spead around to the other units as Pack Leaders or a Dread.

This cuts down on the list tailorig against you.

 Anpu42 wrote:
There is nothing like the expression on your opponents face then 15 Blood Claws come Charging out of your Land Raider Crusader being lead by your Wolf Priest into his Boys Mob holding the key objective.

Sure there is. For example, the expression on your opponent's face when your missile launcher Long Fangs efficiently explode an important transport is extremely enjoyable, especially when you remind them how cheap the squad is.

When that Lone Wolf Charges the full Brood of Genestealers by himself and survives three turns.

Or when the enemy psykers try to cast three spells in a row and your Rune Priest negates all of them.

Lets talk about this without getting into this Unit is Better that Unit and please no Mathhammer.

So if you aren't going to care about which unit is better or look at the math then how do you write a list? Roll dice on the army list pages? Put all the unit names on the wall and throw darts at them until you have enough points?

VS space wolves, get 3 Broadsides with missiles, with missile drones, time this with 3.

If they want missile spam, i will give them missile spam.
"TASTE MY ROCKET SPACE PUPPIES!"

When i play Space wolves, I usually run 5 Drop pods with Grey Hunters, 1 of those pods have my termies in them. But i make sure i take a Minimum of 5 Thunderwolf Calvary. Man i love TWC. They are soo much fun!

The Pods are just there so my TWC can get into combat. I usually lose every game i play with them, but they are seriously fun!

Things like this are why I sold my Minotaurs and Chaos Army. I suppose my local scene is just getting too stale.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Anpu42 wrote:
There is nothing like the expression on your opponents face then 15 Blood Claws come Charging out of your Land Raider Crusader being lead by your Wolf Priest into his Boys Mob holding the key objective.

Sure there is. For example, the expression on your opponent's face when your missile launcher Long Fangs efficiently explode an important transport is extremely enjoyable, especially when you remind them how cheap the squad is.

And Everyone who has played Space Wolves a dozen or more times know this, but after the 50th time it gets old.
I could easily “Dominate” my local Meta; I own the only Land Raiders and Flyers. I know this and they know this.
Three Long Fang SPAM with three Rune Priest with Divination should win me every game, but after a dozen games it gets boring for both them and me. What kind of victory song is going to come out of it.
“Great Yorge is sing that song about how he just his Long Fangs Blasted that Cultist Stronghold once more.”

However if it was your Skyclaws come in late and take out his Cultist holding that important objective, that would be a victory worth talking about.
“Yorge tell us again how you lead those pups into the Cultist so they could get there first real kill. Now he is talking about trying the same thing with Grey Hunters and an outflanking maneuver.”

So if you aren't going to care about which unit is better or look at the math then how do you write a list? Roll dice on the army list pages? Put all the unit names on the wall and throw darts at them until you have enough points?

Three Long Fang SPAM with three Rune Priest with Divination should win every game. I don’t need the math behind it, it has been done a thousand times over.

When I build a list I have a core that I use.
My Rune Priest and his attached Long Fangs, the Two Grey Hunters and recently the Three Land Speeders. Then I start adding what units I have been wanting to play.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ShatteredBlade wrote:
Things like this are why I sold my Minotaurs and Chaos Army. I suppose my local scene is just getting too stale.

This is why I just started to play the units I enjoid playing and just stopped carrying if I won or not and two things started to happen.

1] My opponent and me started have more fun.
2] I still won games.

At 2k, this is what I run

Bjorn
Rune Priest, Bike
Wolf Priest, SotH
Wolf Guard, Arjac, TDA combis, CML as a pack leader for the SotH GH squad, Pod
Grey Hunters, 2x Plasma, Standard, MotW
Grey Hunters, 2x Melta, Standard, MotW, Rhino
Grey Hunters, 1x Melta, Standard, MotW, Rhino
Long Fangs, 5x ML
Long Fangs, 2x PC, 1x HB
2x Land Speeders, HF, MM
1x Land Speeder, TML, HB
Rune Priest gives rhinos cover saves then runs around supporting other units, though I just made the model last night and haven't run him yet. I dropped a HB LF to free up the points to try it out.

Wolf Priest outflanks with Plasma GH squad, giving them preferred enemy on 19 Bolt shots, 2 Krak or Frag missiles, and 4 Plasma shots! Kicks but when it hits the table!

Bjorn helps me get the first turn, while sitting back with my long fangs in case anything outflanks, or gets back there. He tarpits like nobodies business!!!!!!

Land speeders with the HF/MM setup deepstrike on any remaing heavy support, with the other speeder scoots and shoots.

I win about 50% of the time, and I never crush my opponents. I have to be tactical with my list, otherwise it falls apart quickly.

I agree with the OP. Those lists are extremely boring even if they are effective. There is so much more to the SW. There really aren't any terrible units or combinations. Even if some are more efficient uses of points. It does suck with them getting pigeon holed in such a limited list when they don't have to be. So much emphasis is put on 'competitive' Waac lists some people are afraid to be creative. The pigeonholing goes into the theme of them too. They're not simply drunken space Vikings.

Unless you want to take allies, you have to take something to deal with fliers.

If you think ml spam is bad with puppies, ac spam with chaos is going to be even worse.

TL LC Razorbacks or Preds would be AA options as well for the non spammy SW player.

Yeah i routinely run an AC Havok's squad with a ADL with Quad Gun.... for the 210 pts its 12 AC shots 4 that have TL and skyfire+interceptor.... and with demon allies i can get myself divination as well

 Badger_Bhoy wrote:
I agree with the OP. Those lists are extremely boring even if they are effective.

They might be boring, but they're not even half as boring as SW lists full of boring stuff like blood claws or HQs other than rune priests.

The pigeonholing goes into the theme of them too. They're not simply drunken space Vikings.

You're right. SW aren't drunken space vikings, they're an elite shooting army (often based around efficient veterans with heavy weapons) with a bit of counter-charge ability. SW aren't supposed to make stupid "fun" charges, they're supposed to sit back and eliminate the enemy with disciplined fire and then go back home to celebrate.