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Just a quick question: Upon returning to their chapters, do former deathwatch members re-paint their whole armour in the chapter colours, keep their black deathwatch colours or is it optional depending on the warriors choice?

The latest Deathwatch-related novels indicate that they do not bring their own armour, it is provided to them by the Deathwatch. Once their secondment is complete they go back to their chapter and leave the Deathwatch armour behind.

Orblivion wrote:
The latest Deathwatch-related novels indicate that they do not bring their own armour, it is provided to them by the Deathwatch. Once their secondment is complete they go back to their chapter and leave the Deathwatch armour behind.

Don't they retain one inquisitorial pauldron?

I'm gathering though (having not read said novels) that they are gifted certain weapons and the deathwatch pauldron (shoulder pad - God knows why GW name it that!)? Is that correct?

EDIt: Haha ninja'd right there! Yeah that's what I was wondering!

Blood of Asaheim has a mention of the main character surrendering everything save for a pendant he had brought with him and a Stalker-pattern bolter he was allowed to retain. They don't go into too much detail though so maybe he simply refused the pauldron?

Quite possibly. Lexicanum (probably not the best source!) says the armour is painted black, but a part of the original scheme (the chapter icon) is left bare - indicating it is their own armour that has been painted. It also states they are equipped with a new shoulder pad - but doesn't say whether they keep it!

In the original fluff they kept their own armour, minus right pauldron, they are then given a new left pauldron and the current left one migrates to the right.
I believe that once his tour of duty is complete, a Space Marine can choose to keep his Inquisitorial pauldron, but may paint it chapter colours, some choose to leave it how it is, some will embellish it, cannot for the life of me remember the source, but there are a few bitz out there that show this to some extent.

Orblivion wrote:
Blood of Asaheim has a mention of the main character surrendering everything save for a pendant he had brought with him and a Stalker-pattern bolter he was allowed to retain. They don't go into too much detail though so maybe he simply refused the pauldron?

How was that book....?

Was just reading...Rynns World I believe.
And the sergeant who was back from a tour of duty with the Deathwatch wore a silver Deathwatch pauldron in replace of his normal pauldron.

Dunno if its personal choice or what, but he had a stock loadout for weapons, only had the Deathwatch pauldron.

And yes, how are the Deathwatch books? I havent gotten around to reading any of them.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
I'm gathering though (having not read said novels) that they are gifted certain weapons and the deathwatch pauldron (shoulder pad - God knows why GW name it that!)? Is that correct?

Pauldron is what that piece of armor is called, and its a pretty important componant of a suit of armor. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauldron

A shoulder pad is something you wear for a sporting event, a pauldron is a piece of armor.

It was in the old fluff that their armor was painted black, in order to show their service to the Emperor and the Deathwatch, but one pauldron was left in the Chapter's colors, so that the machine spirit of the armor would not be angered.

After their vigil was done, the Marine would return to his Chapter with his armor and a gift of special issue ammunition for his Chapter, in honor of his service in the Deathwatch.

This was in the Chapter Approved article, as well as the first few books.

The FFG Role-playing Game and the recent novels have really expanded on the fluff, and things have changed a little since then.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
I'm gathering though (having not read said novels) that they are gifted certain weapons and the deathwatch pauldron (shoulder pad - God knows why GW name it that!)? Is that correct?

EDIt: Haha ninja'd right there! Yeah that's what I was wondering!

The shoulder-piece of a set of platemail armor, as worn by the knights of old, is called a pauldron. The bits that go over your arms are the vambrace, the bit round your neck is the gorget, the bit on your chest is a cuirass, the bit around your waist and hips is the cuisse, the bits on your legs are the greaves, and the bits on your feet are the boots.

 Warpig1815 wrote:
I'm gathering though (having not read said novels) that they are gifted certain weapons and the deathwatch pauldron (shoulder pad - God knows why GW name it that!)? Is that correct?

EDIt: Haha ninja'd right there! Yeah that's what I was wondering!

You have it backwards. When a Marine goes to the Deathwatch, one of their pauldrons is painted in the colors of the Chapter they are seconded from. They don't get a pauldron painted in Deathwatch livery on their return.

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

 Warpig1815 wrote:
I'm gathering though (having not read said novels) that they are gifted certain weapons and the deathwatch pauldron (shoulder pad - God knows why GW name it that!)? Is that correct?

EDIt: Haha ninja'd right there! Yeah that's what I was wondering!

You have it backwards. When a Marine goes to the Deathwatch, one of their pauldrons is painted in the colors of the Chapter they are seconded from. They don't get a pauldron painted in Deathwatch livery on their return.

Well that's what we're talking about though, as the fluff seems to have changed. The old fluff indicated that when a marine was seconded to the Deathwatch, upon arrival their armour would be repainted black with their chapter symbol on their right pauldron and a Deathwatch symbol on the left pauldron. The new fluff seems to be that they arrive without armour and are given Deathwatch armour for the duration of their secondment. Presumably they would then have the option of keeping the Deathwatch pauldron upon their return to their own chapter.

 DarthMarko wrote:

Orblivion wrote:
Blood of Asaheim has a mention of the main character surrendering everything save for a pendant he had brought with him and a Stalker-pattern bolter he was allowed to retain. They don't go into too much detail though so maybe he simply refused the pauldron?

How was that book....?

I'm not exactly a novel critic, so I will keep it simple. I liked it, but it was somewhat forgettable in my opinion.

^Damn....I was hoping that this story would be good...
But does that book explain SoB and SW relationship at least ?

 DarthMarko wrote:
^Damn....I was hoping that this story would be good...
But does that book explain SoB and SW relationship at least ?

No, not really. There were several mentions about how the two factions don't get along very well, but we already knew that.

Orblivion wrote:
Well that's what we're talking about though, as the fluff seems to have changed. The old fluff indicated that when a marine was seconded to the Deathwatch, upon arrival their armour would be repainted black with their chapter symbol on their right pauldron and a Deathwatch symbol on the left pauldron. The new fluff seems to be that they arrive without armor and are given Deathwatch armour for the duration of their secondment. Presumably they would then have the option of keeping the Deathwatch pauldron upon their return to their own chapter.

Considering the FFG RPGs rather clearly mention that it is the marine's own armor that they bring with them that is painted black, and having not read Blood of Asaheim, I have a few theories I'd like to suggest.

1. Deathwatch Watch Fortresses have their own armories and relics, include relic power armor. A marine who excels or is able to distinguish themselves may earn the right to use these ancient suits of power armor, especially if they are from the same chapter as the original wearer. In which case the armor they brought with them would be kept in storage, to be returned to them when they leave the Deathwatch.

2. Marines may be given a choice of whether they wish to bring their own armor, or be equipped by the Deathwatch. Depending on the traditions of the chapter, it may be considered sacrilege to wear armor intended to only be worn when fighting alongisde your chapter brothers. I can imagine a Space Wolf great company having the belief that the armor they wear is for their "wolf pack" exclusively, that when one of them goes to the Deathwatch, they are not technically "of the pack" for the time being and so would not bring their armor with them.

3. Watch Fortresses are fairly independent from one another and may have different practices concerning what may be taken to or from the Deathwatch. One watch fortress may feel that the Deathwatch pauldron that is commonly given at the end of service may, in some way, hold secrets that they would not wish to leave the Deathwatch. Or perhaps they feel the pauldron is not as meaningful for a marine and instead allow them to keep the weapon that they most favored during their service.

Just some ideas.

jareddm wrote:

Orblivion wrote:
Well that's what we're talking about though, as the fluff seems to have changed. The old fluff indicated that when a marine was seconded to the Deathwatch, upon arrival their armour would be repainted black with their chapter symbol on their right pauldron and a Deathwatch symbol on the left pauldron. The new fluff seems to be that they arrive without armor and are given Deathwatch armour for the duration of their secondment. Presumably they would then have the option of keeping the Deathwatch pauldron upon their return to their own chapter.

Considering the FFG RPGs rather clearly mention that it is the marine's own armor that they bring with them that is painted black, and having not read Blood of Asaheim, I have a few theories I'd like to suggest.

1. Deathwatch Watch Fortresses have their own armories and relics, include relic power armor. A marine who excels or is able to distinguish themselves may earn the right to use these ancient suits of power armor, especially if they are from the same chapter as the original wearer. In which case the armor they brought with them would be kept in storage, to be returned to them when they leave the Deathwatch.

2. Marines may be given a choice of whether they wish to bring their own armor, or be equipped by the Deathwatch. Depending on the traditions of the chapter, it may be considered sacrilege to wear armor intended to only be worn when fighting alongisde your chapter brothers. I can imagine a Space Wolf great company having the belief that the armor they wear is for their "wolf pack" exclusively, that when one of them goes to the Deathwatch, they are not technically "of the pack" for the time being and so would not bring their armor with them.

3. Watch Fortresses are fairly independent from one another and may have different practices concerning what may be taken to or from the Deathwatch. One watch fortress may feel that the Deathwatch pauldron that is commonly given at the end of service may, in some way, hold secrets that they would not wish to leave the Deathwatch. Or perhaps they feel the pauldron is not as meaningful for a marine and instead allow them to keep the weapon that they most favored during their service.

Just some ideas.

Blood of Asaheim is only one of the recent sources to indicate that the marine's use Deathwatch armour, the other one is the new Deathwatch novel, appropriately. Obviously, as with many things in 40k, there is a lot of variance in the fluff, but Deathwatch depicts all of the marines being instructed to arrive without armour and being put through Deathwatch training before they are allowed to use power armour again, which is provided to them once they are assigned to their killteams.

Orblivion wrote:
Blood of Asaheim is only one of the recent sources to indicate that the marine's use Deathwatch armour, the other one is the new Deathwatch novel, appropriately. Obviously, as with many things in 40k, there is a lot of variance in the fluff, but Deathwatch depicts all of the marines being instructed to arrive without armour and being put through Deathwatch training before they are allowed to use power armour again, which is provided to them once they are assigned to their killteams.

Which supports my third theory but I would not say it refutes the others for the entirety of the Deathwatch.

Orblivion wrote:Obviously, as with many things in 40k, there is a lot of variance in the fluff [...]

Indeed. Personally, I'm only familiar with the GW fluff and FFG's Deathwatch RPG, but that is enough for me to know of dozens of contradictions between the sources. Given how the Black Library and its authors operate, I do not expect differently from the novels. In the end, it's up to you what to go by - there is no universal truth, just "overlapping visions" (in the words of Gav Thorpe) for you to pick from.

But just to chime in, this is what GW's Index Astartes has to say:

"The warriors who have been given the honour of becoming a member of the Deathwatch ritually repaint their armour in the black of the Deathwatch, leaving a single shoulder plate bare to signify their Chapter of origin. A Space Marine's armour is never completely obscured by the Deathwatch colours as to do so would dishonour the armour's spirit and no warrior would be willing to run such a risk. Each warrior may also bear the Icon of the Deathwatch on his other shoulder plate and it is a great honour to be chosen. Once in the employ of the Deathwatch, there is no set length of service and its members will remain together for as long as its commander deems necessary. Each Space Marine can serve for a discreet period of time or a particular mission, which, in itself, may take many years. With the completion of their service, the Space Marines are free to return to their Chapter, their oaths of loyalty fulfiled."
- WD #259

.. and, from the White Dwarf rules for Deathwatch Kill Teams:

"As an alternative to fielding entire Kill-teams, you may upgrade one or more members of any Space Marine army selected using only Codex Space Marines to veterans of Deathwatch. As a reward for the service provided by the Deathwatch, the rare ammunition types they use are made available in limited numbers when the volunteer Space Marine is back in regular service with his Chapter. Only Independent Characters or members of Headquarters, Veteran or Tactical Squads can be upgraded and these must wear the distinctive Deathwatch shoulder pad."

Hope that helps.

PS: But no, I do not believe they would repaint the Inquisitorial shoulder pauldron. That'd be like painting an award, and given that it is supposed to signify the bearer as a DW vet it'd kind of defeat the purpose of wearing it in the first place if you don't wear it in its original silver hue.
In the end, however, this too is up to you!

That is one of my issues with the Black Library...if you're going to write a book for a specific setting, do some research! If there is existing material, then feel free to expand upon it, but don't erase or ignore it.

Can you imagine the nerd rage if some lazy author made Luke Skywalker a Rebel hero before he went out to meet "Old Ben"...

It was bad enough when Goto used to write about Space Marines using "Multi-lasers", which are an Imperial Guard vehicle mounted weapon. Now, we have to deal with authors making up their own fluff despite what has gone before.

It wouldn't be hard to do the research, either. Just use Google...

Cherry pick the bit of fluff you like the best.

What sticks out to me the most for modeling and canon would be a Space Marine retaining his DW shoulder pad and, if he served with distinction, the weapon he favored in his time of service.

Apologies for not replying quicker!

Thanks to all who have replied - it's helped greatly in clarifying this issue - I'm just gonna stick with using Deathwatch Pauldrons on Chapter schemes on any models I do with Deathwatch themes.

Oh and @Psienesis and @Grey Templar - I hope I don't sound like I'm dismissing your well-intentioned comments, but I am aware of the various names of the constituent pieces of armour. My purpose in that part of the post was that, for the life of me, I can't work out why GW insists on naming parts of the Astartes armour 'shoulder-pads' and 'backpacks' - instead of the proper terminology of 'Pauldron' or 'Power Generator' (Although I suspect that 'back-pack' is easier to describe the power-plant of an Astartes armour - but there is really no excuse for 'shoulder pad'!)

Thanks again to all posters - much appreciated!

 Arcsquad12 wrote:

 Warpig1815 wrote:
I'm gathering though (having not read said novels) that they are gifted certain weapons and the deathwatch pauldron (shoulder pad - God knows why GW name it that!)? Is that correct?

EDIt: Haha ninja'd right there! Yeah that's what I was wondering!

You have it backwards. When a Marine goes to the Deathwatch, one of their pauldrons is painted in the colors of the Chapter they are seconded from. They don't get a pauldron painted in Deathwatch livery on their return.

I had heard they bring one pauldron in their Chapter livery and when they return they are allowed to keep the other pauldron. I know there are minis (old ones I think) where the left pauldron will have iconography to show they were in Deathwatch (even if they don't keep the actual pauldron) like the shoulder pads with Terminator honors.

Supposedly every Chapter has a dress code of sorts, so if the Marine returning is allowed to show they were in Deathwatch somehow, that would be up to the individual Chapter I would think.

 Orblivion wrote:

jareddm wrote:

Orblivion wrote:
Well that's what we're talking about though, as the fluff seems to have changed. The old fluff indicated that when a marine was seconded to the Deathwatch, upon arrival their armour would be repainted black with their chapter symbol on their right pauldron and a Deathwatch symbol on the left pauldron. The new fluff seems to be that they arrive without armor and are given Deathwatch armour for the duration of their secondment. Presumably they would then have the option of keeping the Deathwatch pauldron upon their return to their own chapter.

Considering the FFG RPGs rather clearly mention that it is the marine's own armor that they bring with them that is painted black, and having not read Blood of Asaheim, I have a few theories I'd like to suggest.

1. Deathwatch Watch Fortresses have their own armories and relics, include relic power armor. A marine who excels or is able to distinguish themselves may earn the right to use these ancient suits of power armor, especially if they are from the same chapter as the original wearer. In which case the armor they brought with them would be kept in storage, to be returned to them when they leave the Deathwatch.

2. Marines may be given a choice of whether they wish to bring their own armor, or be equipped by the Deathwatch. Depending on the traditions of the chapter, it may be considered sacrilege to wear armor intended to only be worn when fighting alongisde your chapter brothers. I can imagine a Space Wolf great company having the belief that the armor they wear is for their "wolf pack" exclusively, that when one of them goes to the Deathwatch, they are not technically "of the pack" for the time being and so would not bring their armor with them.

3. Watch Fortresses are fairly independent from one another and may have different practices concerning what may be taken to or from the Deathwatch. One watch fortress may feel that the Deathwatch pauldron that is commonly given at the end of service may, in some way, hold secrets that they would not wish to leave the Deathwatch. Or perhaps they feel the pauldron is not as meaningful for a marine and instead allow them to keep the weapon that they most favored during their service.

Just some ideas.

Blood of Asaheim is only one of the recent sources to indicate that the marine's use Deathwatch armour, the other one is the new Deathwatch novel, appropriately. Obviously, as with many things in 40k, there is a lot of variance in the fluff, but Deathwatch depicts all of the marines being instructed to arrive without armour and being put through Deathwatch training before they are allowed to use power armour again, which is provided to them once they are assigned to their killteams.

Not quite.

Until they've finished the basic DW training they're not allowed to wear their own armour, although they do bring it with them.

They then get their own armour, with the new colour scheme, back, but the DW can and does make modifications to it, oft depending upon the mission they're required to go on.