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I recently bought 2 squads. They haven't been built or anything, but I do wonder what they should field.

Any suggestions or advice?

As they are not very different to other chapters i´d say the majority suggests 4xML. It´s versatile and not too expensive.

Definitely keep the same weapon, or at least the same types of weapon, to the same unit. There's no point mixing and matching a heavy bolter and a lascannon for instance, this ensures one will be wasting its full potential every turn.

With two kits, you should have:
2x missile launchers
2x multimelta
4x heavy bolters
4x lascannons
4x plasma cannons

A 4x missile launcher squad is cheap, versatile AND effective so if you can get hold of 2 more missile guys, do it - pull them from Tactical squads even, you can always shove a heavy bolter or multimelta guy in those squads instead.
For the second squad I would suggest all plasma cannons, but that's because I love the things. Another viable option is multimeltas and lascannons. This gives you an anti-tank unit without having to find more multimeltas from somewhere.

Missing ML can be made out of Hunter-Killer missiles with little to no effort btw!

Theres been a lot of hate for the ML, but in my experience it does a pretty goof job. If theres a lot of
Av 14 or 13 your meltas on your assault squads, bikes, speeders, land raiders, etc etc will take care of them. If your opponents are fond of mech spam you MIGHT want some las cannons.

If youve got some extra basic marines id get them and build all the heavy weapons. Lots of heavy weapon options are more useful than some extra BAs with bolters.

 RedAngel wrote:
Theres been a lot of hate for the ML, but in my experience it does a pretty goof job. If theres a lot of
Av 14 or 13 your meltas on your assault squads, bikes, speeders, land raiders, etc etc will take care of them. If your opponents are fond of mech spam you MIGHT want some las cannons.

If youve got some extra basic marines id get them and build all the heavy weapons. Lots of heavy weapon options are more useful than some extra BAs with bolters.

Missile Launchers rely on volume of fire now rather than effectiveness of fire... however, I'm getting the distinct feeling that they're going to be pretty bad when the other Marines books get updated to 6th edition. 15pts base is pretty crappy when you can get a Multimelta for 5pts less, or a Lascannon for 5pts more.

Yes, MLs rely on volume of fire with a ROF of 1. It's cheap, but you get what you pay for sort of. I pretty much avoid devs with BA in 6th. But if you've got the models already, I'd consider plasma cannons. They can really work over some lists.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 RedAngel wrote:
Theres been a lot of hate for the ML, but in my experience it does a pretty goof job. If theres a lot of
Av 14 or 13 your meltas on your assault squads, bikes, speeders, land raiders, etc etc will take care of them. If your opponents are fond of mech spam you MIGHT want some las cannons.

If youve got some extra basic marines id get them and build all the heavy weapons. Lots of heavy weapon options are more useful than some extra BAs with bolters.

Missile Launchers rely on volume of fire now rather than effectiveness of fire... however, I'm getting the distinct feeling that they're going to be pretty bad when the other Marines books get updated to 6th edition. 15pts base is pretty crappy when you can get a Multimelta for 5pts less, or a Lascannon for 5pts more.

MLs are 10 points/model for Blood Angels not 15/model so they are the same price as MM and HB.

 warpspider89 wrote:

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

 RedAngel wrote:
Theres been a lot of hate for the ML, but in my experience it does a pretty goof job. If theres a lot of
Av 14 or 13 your meltas on your assault squads, bikes, speeders, land raiders, etc etc will take care of them. If your opponents are fond of mech spam you MIGHT want some las cannons.

If youve got some extra basic marines id get them and build all the heavy weapons. Lots of heavy weapon options are more useful than some extra BAs with bolters.

Missile Launchers rely on volume of fire now rather than effectiveness of fire... however, I'm getting the distinct feeling that they're going to be pretty bad when the other Marines books get updated to 6th edition. 15pts base is pretty crappy when you can get a Multimelta for 5pts less, or a Lascannon for 5pts more.

MLs are 10 points/model for Blood Angels not 15/model so they are the same price as MM and HB.

Notice the part where I said when they get updated they'll be 15pts per model. Yeah, 10 points is fair for them currently, but when BA get updated (probably next year), they're not going to be a very good choice anymore.

I never learnt to read... haha ; )

Rumor is BA codex is first quarter of 2015.

 warpspider89 wrote:
I never learnt to read... haha ; )

No worries, all fixed now. I'm just trying to advise anyway, because it'd suck to buy a bunch of Missile Launchers right now and then find out that they're pretty crappy in a year or 2 and that you need to get lascannons now... I'm probably going to be in that boat when Space Wolves get updated. Either that or I'm going to have to get some Predators.

I'd get the predators myself. To me, it doesn't matter how cheap the ML is, it's a waste of a heavy support slot to equip guys with these things. Pay 5 more points and get a weapon someone might care about: plasma cannon.

Maybe magnetise the squad aswell then they can be anything. That's what I did and it works quite well. I tend to run the squad as ML devs as I've got 4 mls painted and they usually perform well forca 130 pts squad.

D

Martel732 wrote:
Rumor is BA codex is first quarter of 2015.

Were getting rumour's 2 years in advance now? I don't even think GW know what they will be doing in 2 years, let alone us :S

A lot of companies do short term (5 year) and long term (10 year) planning so it wouldn't be a surprise if they actually have planned that far in advance.

*Note* It is usually more of a rough plan than an exact plan.

I very much doubt there's a 5 year Codex/Army Book layout, but a 2 year plan would be realistic. Still open to changes, mind. Leaving it much longer than that would mean not enough time to have the proper conversations around design, direction, and properly tying up concepts between designers, artists, sculptors and painters.

Considering that they've begun ramping up Codex production speeds, I'd be surprised if they didn't have up until mid-2014 planned out.

i play exclusively BA in GT's and i use 2 dev squads in all my builds and they have been very good for me.

5 man squad with 4 plasma cannon
5 man squad with 4 las cannon

what you get is a 1 - 2 punch. las cannons destroy transports - plasma cannons massacre anything transported (as clustered in destroyed vehicle footprint you get a LOT of hits).

i use them with an aegis line with a quad gun, and a sang priest.

---------------------------------------
L. L. L. L. S.QG.S. P. P. P. P
.................. SP

sarges from both squads stay in B2B with quad gun. sang priest hangs back within coherency of plasma cannon squad, and close enough to help out las squad.

the other units in my army take care of infantry, and melta assault squad, with dante, take care of any high AV vehicles.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
forgot to add.. the las sarge uses the quad gun - this gives 8 shots from the squads vs vehicles and infantry, and when shooting at aircraft (not from intercept) the extra 4 lascannon snapshots can sometimes be helpful.

Missiles plain and simple, for 140pts your rocking 4 flak or krak missles a turn. Cheap and effective

BattleCapIronblood, what do you think of our advice?

Would it work in your local meta?

What have you done, or are planning to do with your dev squads?

"Missiles plain and simple, for 140pts your rocking 4 flak or krak missles a turn. Cheap and effective"

Cheap, but not effective sadly.

Not to mention BA don't have access to flakk.

I imagine he meant frag.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
I imagine he meant frag.

yes and im meant frag, in my meta missiles are effective, i dealt with a lot of Orks, Nids, and Eldar with Wraithlords and Guard with spamming chimeras, so yes they were very effective being so cheap

I've never found missiles threatening to my guard. A squad using krak takes around 3 turns to pop a chimera. That's if I'm not using cover. While anything with AV:14 is bascially invulnerable.
The frag are just as bad. Displacement really ruins their damage, and allowing a 5+ save cuts that damage by 1/3rd. Which isn't a trivial reduction. I really don't fear missiles. However if they were lascannons, they'd suddenly become a prime target. Something that must go down ASAP. Missiles can be ignored: and that's not a good thing.

I don't think any given meta can make the ML not inferior in 6th edition. MLs seem cheap but you are paying the opportunity cost of a heavy slot and a space marine tax to field one. Plus,they can't move and shoot. For the BA, a fast pred is a better TAC choice. Or even devs with plasma cannons. Fielding MLs is asking to be victimized by a Ravenwing list or any AV 13/14 based list. MLs anti-horde isn't even that good. Templates do the job much, much better as they don't roll to hit and ignore cover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
MLs are far down my priority list as well. They have slightly enhanced utility vs my FNP marines, but they don't even have that benefit vs plague marines.

If I'm using my mech list, they'll never disable my predators and my razorbacks in time to swing the battle. If using my drop list, I just introduce them to a fragnought and boom: no more MLs. Even if one or two survive, they can't kill a fragnought from the front.

Martel732 wrote:
I don't think any given meta can make the ML not inferior in 6th edition. MLs seem cheap but you are paying the opportunity cost of a heavy slot and a space marine tax to field one. Plus,they can't move and shoot. For the BA, a fast pred is a better TAC choice. Or even devs with plasma cannons. Fielding MLs is asking to be victimized by a Ravenwing list or any AV 13/14 based list. MLs anti-horde isn't even that good. Templates do the job much, much better as they don't roll to hit and ignore cover.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
MLs are far down my priority list as well. They have slightly enhanced utility vs my FNP marines, but they don't even have that benefit vs plague marines.

If I'm using my mech list, they'll never disable my predators and my razorbacks in time to swing the battle. If using my drop list, I just introduce them to a fragnought and boom: no more MLs. Even if one or two survive, they can't kill a fragnought from the front.

I'm not denying that, vindicators, predators, riledreds, stormravens, and the like are better choices than devastators in 6th but when running a dev squad i'd take Missiles, multi meltas, or heavy bolters before taking plasma cannons or lascasnons. sure its 4 las/plas cannons but thats from 150 - 190pts for 5 guys.... 5 guys in power armor who will be prime targets and easy to kill with Lootas, Splinter Boats, or Missilefangs. I'm sorry but 4 missiles scares my necrons and demons more so than 4 plasma cannons or 4 lascannons

Not all lists are Necrons or demons. We're talking TAC here. Plasma cannons have home run hitting power that MLs lack. Plasma cannons can devastate even a TH/SS terminator squad, especially if null zone is up. MLs can never do this. That's what my heavy support is for: to engage targets my templates and BA ASM can't touch. MLs don't give me that.

 RedAngel wrote:
BattleCapIronblood, what do you think of our advice?

Would it work in your local meta?

What have you done, or are planning to do with your dev squads?

I'm really liking all the advice here. Thank you all. So far, my Devs remain in their boxes. I really haven't been working on my models recently, but I will crack them open during the summer hopefully. I've only played against Dark Angels, all three games since I only have one person to play with. The old group that used to play went off the face of the earth, so I have no idea how to really build up the Devs. I'm assuming if I go against power armor, its best to field PC. It seems to do a good job in the few games I've seen it being used.

And the only reason I got the Devs instead of Preds, was obviously because they are cheaper ($ wise)