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I have been playing Blood Angels since I began 40k 3 years ago, I had have always been a fan of jumper lists, and as I became more 'aware' of the 40k world around me, and the competitive scene, that was going on. And the Mech Blood Angels were considered the strongest way to run our vampires, I avoided mech lists and tanks in general with a 50ft barge poll.

Which brings me to my current dilemma, my foot Angels, as many other Blood Angels players I am sure will vouch for, just don't cut the mustard as well as they used to. So I am now considering turning to the Mech, since it's not as 'in' as it was in 5th (I'm a hipster like that). I actually ran my first test game with it last night on Vassal, with this list.

++(2000pts) ++

+ HQ + (200pts)

* Librarian (100pts)
Shackle Soul, Shield of Sanguinius
* Power Armour
Bolt Pistol


* Librarian (100pts)
Shackle Soul, Shield of Sanguinius
* Power Armour
Bolt Pistol


+ Elites + (100pts)

* Sanguinary Priests (100pts)
* Sanguinary Priest
* Power Armour
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword
* Sanguinary Priest
* Power Armour
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


+ Troops + (835pts)

* Assault Squad (165pts)
4x Assault Marines, Meltagun
* Razorback
Lascannon & Twin Linked Plasma Gun
* Veteran Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


* Assault Squad (170pts)
4x Assault Marines, Plasmagun
* Razorback
Lascannon & Twin Linked Plasma Gun
* Veteran Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


* Assault Squad (165pts)
4x Assault Marines, Meltagun
* Razorback
Twin Linked Assault Cannon
* Veteran Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


* Assault Squad (165pts)
4x Assault Marines, Meltagun
* Razorback
Twin Linked Assault Cannon
* Veteran Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


* Assault Squad (170pts)
4x Assault Marines, Plasmagun
* Razorback
Lascannon & Twin Linked Plasma Gun
* Veteran Sergeant
Bolt Pistol, Chainsword


+ Fast Attack + (290pts)

* Baal Predator (145pts)
Heavy Bolters, Twin Linked Assault Cannon


* Baal Predator (145pts)
Heavy Bolters, Twin Linked Assault Cannon


+ Heavy Support + (575pts)

* Predator (100pts)
Autocannon, Heavy Bolters


* Predator (100pts)
Autocannon, Heavy Bolters


* Stormraven Gunship (230pts)
Hurricane Bolter Sponsons, Twin Linked Assault Cannon, Twin Linked Heavy Bolters


* Vindicator (145pts)

Now I have no idea how 'effective' this list is considered, or how well it is made, it was just my initial draft.

My biggest concern with it is, I had no idea what I was doing, as soon as it was my turn to deploy, I realised how unfamiliar the territory was, I have no idea what to do with a mech list, and from the first turn I had already lost the game because of how I deployed. Now I am not after hand me outs here, just what are peoples thoughts on Meching up in genral? Is it worth it? Can it work? What are the general hints and tips and tactics involved using Mech lists?

Thanks for your consideration...

Edit: I know this may look like a Army List thread, but I am not to interested in net listing etc, any passing advise on the list is welcomed, but I am more interested in peoples advice on the tactics with such a list, and thoughts in general on a Mech Blood Angels list in 6th, the list it self, I find will take care of its self with time and games.

Edit2, 100th Thread, woop!

The truth is, no matter what you do, you're going to be at a disadvantage against nearly every other codex. Every BA scheme has been nerfed in 6th to some degree or another.

Agree with Martel.

Anyway. I think you're low on troops. AV11 transports really aren't all that durable and the problem is, once they get wrecked your troops cannot assault. So they will be stuck shooting, which they do quite poorly.

Hate to say it, but I think one of the best things BA can do these days is bring along a blob to help out with the number of bodies you'll have. BA libbies have access to Divination and Prescience + ATSKNF makes Guardsmen scary!

Oh how I hate the blob crutch.

This works better I think with 5 man ASM with flamer and hand flamer in a razor with TL HF. It's cheap and destructive. Get your anti-tank anti-teq other places, imo.

I'm gonna play devils advocate here a little. You mention that AV 11 transports are easy to crack. But he does have 5 AV 13 tanks to hide behind. I might suggest dropping the two regular predators and trying to find a way to field vindicators instead. A single vindicator is a priority target. 3 is a nightmare for most opponents to crack.

I would also suggest an alternative loadout for the stormraven. The rest of your list (dakka BA preds, assault cannon razorbacks) is kitted out to kill infantry pretty well. I would suggest TL Assault Cannons/TL MM and no other upgrades for the bird. The flying MM is brutal against most other flyers and the S8 AP1 missiles are gravy.

Dozerblades are also a must for mech lists like this. I would suggest dropping the sang priest to make points for these changes. Your infantry should spend very little time outside the transports except for finishing shots on exposed targets.

With those changes, you can form a phalanx of vehicles with the 3x vindi at the center, a baal on each end and the razorbacks behind. Your libbies with sanguine shield can provide cover saves to the whole blob. With the fast vehicle rules at your disposal you can control the center of the board with the vindis. (few opponents are willing to put their troops in range of 3 S10 pie plates. The vindis also provide reliable counters to AV 13-14 and for hordes to spread out.

Mech counters helldrakes really well. Laying flame templates down on av 11 or 13 is no where near as fun as cackling as you scoop up 3-4 MEQ per turn. Drop melta will land, and probably kill 1 tank that is less expensive than they are (most drop melta is around 150-180 pts, though there are some nice gems like storm troopers and suicide chaos termies, they clock in around 100pts) But you have so many vehicles that they will only remove one before getting plasma/assault cannon/Demolisher to the face.

And Thaylen's idea is why I love me some lascannons.

Triple vindicator and even double vindicator are not that rare and the lascannon is the best way to engage them at range.

Couple of problems. One, the major anti-tank unit in the game: Night Scythe, is able to easily out maneuver the Razors so that they cannot hide. These will also get side armor on Preds pretty easily.

Mech isn't a great answer to Drakes. 3 Drakes will average 9 Str. 7 hits that ignore cover, meaning they could open 2 Razors in a turn, that 5 man squad will be wiped out because of it's template friendly formation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not saying mech is a terrible idea, but I think the value of Razorbacks has definitely dropped. I think Rhinos are a much better transport due to their cheap cost. Razors are cheap for BA but there is the hidden cost of pricier troops to get the drop in points.

I think BA can also utilize Pods + Jumpers pretty well. Mix Sternguard/Death Company in Pods with Jumpers.

There's lots of "not terrible" things you can do with BA, but "not terrible" will lose you lots of games vs the more vicious lists in 40K.

Don't forget the drakes don't exist in a vacuum. CSM have all kinds of ways to open up AV 11 tanks.

I have a pod/jumper list. It works okay, but helldrakes eat it, too. And its not like assaulting plague marines is some kind of treat either.

If I were to do pods jumpers, i'd take IG for a homefield blob and a Vendetta and take 1 BA raven. That'll give you dogfighting ability vs. your biggest threat.

Yeah, I would too, but I don't own any IG. Much to my dismay. And for extra lulz, put plasma vets in the Vendetta and let the CSM feel my pain! We BA can't take you in HTH anymore, but we can bring along these normal humans with STR 7 AP 2 guns! I hate where the BA are right now so much; it's completely against all representation of what they should be.

yeah, BA suck. I'd say the only marine codex in worse shape is BT.

You're an edition too late to dominate as mech BA. In 5th they stomped face, in 6th they're just...weak. You could try fielding them as vanilla Space Marines if you want to try out mech MEQ.

Firsts things first, thanks for the replies, some good stuff to mull over, and I'll try to give you all my thoughts on what has been said, but I'll explain my situation a little better first, so at the minute, I am away from home, so I can only play on VASSAL so there is literally no limit as to what I can field, but I am trying to stick to stuff I either have, or would likely get when I get back home. So at the minute I am playing against some of the toughest lists around, just because of the nature of VASSAL, which does give me a bit of a baptism of fire for Mech, but thats fine, just makes the learning curve slightly steeper, but when I go home, I have a decent gaming group who all play fairly relaxed lists, so I'm not expecting to come up against much power gaming, I know there is no Necrons at home, and only one guy (who happens to be my most common opponent) who fields two Heldrakes, if you give him permission to.

LValx wrote:Agree with Martel.

Anyway. I think you're low on troops. AV11 transports really aren't all that durable and the problem is, once they get wrecked your troops cannot assault. So they will be stuck shooting, which they do quite poorly.

Hate to say it, but I think one of the best things BA can do these days is bring along a blob to help out with the number of bodies you'll have. BA libbies have access to Divination and Prescience + ATSKNF makes Guardsmen scary!

If I wanted to try make my BA 'competitive' then yeah this would be the way I'd go, in fact I would probably use guard as the main and ally in BA.

Martel732 wrote:Oh how I hate the blob crutch.

This works better I think with 5 man ASM with flamer and hand flamer in a razor with TL HF. It's cheap and destructive. Get your anti-tank anti-teq other places, imo.

I have revised my list slightly, and I did include one Razorback with a setup like this, as in my first game I could have sorely done with some templates.

Thaylen wrote:I'm gonna play devils advocate here a little. You mention that AV 11 transports are easy to crack. But he does have 5 AV 13 tanks to hide behind. I might suggest dropping the two regular predators and trying to find a way to field vindicators instead. A single vindicator is a priority target. 3 is a nightmare for most opponents to crack.

I would also suggest an alternative loadout for the stormraven. The rest of your list (dakka BA preds, assault cannon razorbacks) is kitted out to kill infantry pretty well. I would suggest TL Assault Cannons/TL MM and no other upgrades for the bird. The flying MM is brutal against most other flyers and the S8 AP1 missiles are gravy.

Dozerblades are also a must for mech lists like this. I would suggest dropping the sang priest to make points for these changes. Your infantry should spend very little time outside the transports except for finishing shots on exposed targets.

With those changes, you can form a phalanx of vehicles with the 3x vindi at the center, a baal on each end and the razorbacks behind. Your libbies with sanguine shield can provide cover saves to the whole blob. With the fast vehicle rules at your disposal you can control the center of the board with the vindis. (few opponents are willing to put their troops in range of 3 S10 pie plates. The vindis also provide reliable counters to AV 13-14 and for hordes to spread out.

Mech counters helldrakes really well. Laying flame templates down on av 11 or 13 is no where near as fun as cackling as you scoop up 3-4 MEQ per turn. Drop melta will land, and probably kill 1 tank that is less expensive than they are (most drop melta is around 150-180 pts, though there are some nice gems like storm troopers and suicide chaos termies, they clock in around 100pts) But you have so many vehicles that they will only remove one before getting plasma/assault cannon/Demolisher to the face.

+1 for this post.

Now hiding the Razors behind the AV13 was my strategy in my first game, but I found that I ended up castling my self in, maybe it was just because it was against Nids, and in hindsight it was a poor tactic, since it just got me surrounded and fast! Your idea about the 3 Vindis is pretty interesting, the first thing I realised after my first game was I had a lot of Dakka but not much damage, So in my second I swapped some stuff around and ran 3 Las/Plas one with assualt cannon and one heavy flamer. But triple vindis would be something I will defiantly have a look into.

LValx wrote:Couple of problems. One, the major anti-tank unit in the game: Night Scythe, is able to easily out maneuver the Razors so that they cannot hide. These will also get side armor on Preds pretty easily.

Mech isn't a great answer to Drakes. 3 Drakes will average 9 Str. 7 hits that ignore cover, meaning they could open 2 Razors in a turn, that 5 man squad will be wiped out because of it's template friendly formation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm not saying mech is a terrible idea, but I think the value of Razorbacks has definitely dropped. I think Rhinos are a much better transport due to their cheap cost. Razors are cheap for BA but there is the hidden cost of pricier troops to get the drop in points.

I think BA can also utilize Pods + Jumpers pretty well. Mix Sternguard/Death Company in Pods with Jumpers.

As I have said at the top of the post, Nasty stuff like loads of drakes or Scythes I can just put up with for now, untill I get home. However I do like the idea of mixing in a few bigger squads with drop pods, my game last night was against a Tau/Eldar list, and he had a fortress of Redemtion, and just droppped str8 plates on me, pretty much destroying or making half my tanks useless in one salvo. So a suicide Melta Sternguard would have been beautiful to take out that Fortress and level the playing field a bit, and will be something I have a look into.

BryllCream wrote:You're an edition too late to dominate as mech BA. In 5th they stomped face, in 6th they're just...weak. You could try fielding them as vanilla Space Marines if you want to try out mech MEQ.

As I said in the original post, I knew Mech was the dominating BA list in 5th which is why it didn't interest me, now its not as good as it was, I'm trying to find life in the old dog. The problem with vanilla is two fold for me, no discount on the Transports for troops. And two my minis are already Blood Angels.

There is a way to bring back mech in 6th ed. You can run Dark Angels Razors and ICs with Powerfield Generators. You can get 2 ICs for one HQ slot using a libby and techmarine. Any model within 3" of your DA Razorback know gets a 4+ invulnerable. It is fairly cheap and lets you take minimal allies (Two man tacticals w/ Razors and 2 170 pts in IC)

If you don't want to give up the ghost on your jumpers you can try the list Neil Gilstrap took to the Indy Open.

Consists of BA jumpers with DA PFG ICs and Sangunairy priests for FnP. This will give you a 4++ and FNP on your jump marines making them much more durable. On the down side it doesn't make them much more killy and you have to cluster a bit to get the effects of the powerfield. Its a fun list, not really competitive but better than a pure Jumpers list.