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So I'm just getting into this game and was trying to make a list of stuff to buy before just spending money on everything there is.
So this is what I have currently

2x Heldrakes with baleflamers
Lucius the eternal as my HQ so I can have noise as my troops
Forgefiend with hades cannons (was my first purchase, might as well use)
4 Rhino's (to use as fodder/transport)
20 Noise marines split into groups of 5; 4 champions with doom sirens& 2 with melta bombs, and the regular noise marines with sonic blasters
Defiler with havoc launcher and TLLC (unsure if I should do TLLC, thinking that the Defiler was going to be my anti tank)

No blast masters?
Only filling the rhinos to half capacity?
Assaulting without a dirge caster on a rhino to negate enemy over watch?

I think you should proxy the Lucius at the 1500pt lvl as a Lord Mos until you grow to 2k.

Your forgefiend and vector striking heldrakes are your anti-tank. The defiler is an expensive way to get a battle cannon, the havoc launcher can not fire the same turn as the battle cannon and the lascannon can only snap fire. The only thing going for it is the extra HP and the power claws.

If you are worried about hordes drop the defiler for a vindicator. If you want to buff your assault potential go for a mauler fiend to run up with the rhinos. It'll give you a few spare points to increase the noise marines unit sizes.

I've always felt that Noise Marines should come in two flavors.

5 Noise Marines + Champ for a fluffy Slaaneshi 6 total, 5 Sonic Blasters and maybe a Doom Siren on the champ for advancing weight of fire.

9 Noise Marines + Champ in a Rhino, 2 blastmasters, the rest bolters. This gives you max survivability for your S8 AP3 Blast shots at 48", ignoring cover.

ok so I won't get a defiler because they are pretty expensive and I'll replace that with a vindicator which is cheap. also will get rid of a rhino because 4 is excessive. I will be using the rhino's to funnel fire/enemy units. By getting rid of these it gives me enough points to get a few more noise marines. I was thinking about adding one to each group (5 regular with a champ w/doom siren), most of them would be using sonic blasters except for two with blastmasters. wise changes?

You can only get 1 Blastmaster on a 5-9 man squad. You get a second one on a 10 man. (CSM FAQ) And another at 20, but that squad can't fit in a Rhino anymore.

You pay 30 pts for a blastmaster, and its really best stationary so you can use what I call the Krakblast profile. (S8 AP3 blast) The moving Assault 2 profile isn't bad, but you paid a premium for the wargear, it's best to use it as an immobile firebase if you can, with the option to take decent potshots while redeploying.
If you buy the Sonic Blasters, they will have nothing to shoot at for too long if they are deployed back and don't move (because of the blastmaster) and you are paying quite a lot extra for them not to shoot it. If you are taking mobile (Rhino mounted or footslogging) NM, sonic blasters are great, but it's very expensive to drag the Blastmaster with them and not get the most out of it.


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So your best best with Noise Marines is either to go stationary:

6 man, blastmaster, no other upgrades, in or out of a Rhino
10 man, 2 blastmasters, no other upgrades, in or out of a Rhino

(the Rhino is being used for durability rather than mobility here)

or mobile

6 man, 5 sonic blasters, add PW/PF Doom Siren to taste, in or out of a Rhino
10 man, 9 sonic blasters, add PW/PF Doom Siren to taste, in or out of a Rhino

(the Rhino here is for mobility, you are going to get out of it mid-field to bring the weight of fire, and park it to cut off LoS to the squad as needed)

I recommend the Doom Siren on the champ, even though the template won't reach most targets that the NM are shooting at, because on the turn you GET charged, you get D3 S5 AP3 autohits on the incoming squad, along with a 15 shot overwatch, and then I5 to whittle whatever came in down to size. If you have spare points, toss extra CCWs on them for extra I5 hits. PW/PF completely optional but viable.

I do like the damage that the blast master can dish out but I'm not sure I'd want a whole squad to stay back and they are expensive. That would mean i'd have an extra 54 points for CCW's and dirge casters on the other two rhino's that don't have it,; go the mobile route (and i'll be doing the doom siren's on the champions i have)

I use Forgefiends a lot because two of them were given to me as a gift. It is hard to get enough production out of two of them. One of them is a waste of space/points. I would recomend getting a second or dropping it all together for a dakka pred.

Sounds good.
The other possibility is to go with a MoS Lord and give him the Burning Brand, combined with the Heldrake, and Blastmaster NM.

Then MEQ players cry, as the Doom Siren, the Baleflamer, the Brand, and the Blastmaster are AP 3, Ignores cover, and most of those wound on 3+ or better. I every die you roll that isn't a 1 on the wound roll is a dead model. So juicy.

I think that might be the way I'll be going, the MoS lord is cheaper, and i mainly wanted lucius for the Noise marines. I was looking at the codex and i'm unsure about the points though, like how many points it costs for him to have terminator armor and the Brand. is it 40? Thanks for the help with constructing my army

You can take Noisemarines as troops just by taking a lord with MoS.

I also agree that I've yet to find a use for squads that mix blastmasters and Sonic blasters. Except maybe if you infiiltrate a large squad using Huron's warlord trait, which isn't something I've tried yet. The idea of putting 2 blastmasters and 17 sonic blasters all fearless 18 inches away from the enemy on turn one does seem very appealing. Probably more than 400 points though.

Lord with MoS and no other upgrades is 80 pts, to unlock the NM troops, and NM 20 man squad with 3 blastmasters and 16 Sonic Blasters is 488 pts. If that Lord rolls Master of Deception for his warlord trait, you could outflank them midfield or back behind enemy lines and open an insane amount of dakka. 32 Ignores Cover bolter shots, 48 if they get relentless from a Sorc, or on any turn they don't move, plus 6 S5 shots from the blastmasters, or 3 S8 AP3 Blasts on any turn they don't move/have relentless.

The easiest way to get relentless is a Chaos Sorcerer, unmarked, with Mastery Level 3, rolling on Biomancy, hoping to get a 3 (Endurance) which gives not only Relentless, but FNP. That Sorc, naked except the ML upgrades is 110, and has a 42.12% chance of rolling that power with 3 rolls on Biomancy. Not totally reliable, but insanely awesome when it works.


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A Lord with MoS, the Brand and Terminator armour is 150 pts.

I have been thinking about a similar CSM noise marine list myself but I have a couple of questions about 1500 point lists.
The points total for the list below is 1456.

Is three Units of Noise Marines enough to survive for a competitive list? The scoring format is a FLGS rendition of gw-veterans nights.
Does a walking unit take the Icon of Excess or a Rhino?

Troops: 516 points
A) 1x Noise Marine w/ Blastmaster , 4x Noise Marine w/ Bolter , Noise Champ w/ ccw bolt pistol , in Rhino
B) 1x Noise Marine w/ Blastmaster , 4x Noise Marine w/ Bolter , Noise Champ w/ ccw bolt pistol , in Rhino
C) 5x Noise Marine w/ Sonic Blaster w/ 5x ccw , Noise Champ w/ bolt pistol PW (pw type unknown) Doom Siren , ( walking )

FOC:
1x CSM Sorcer w/ x2 additional mastery levels, MoS, Sigil, power amour
2x Hellbrute w/ Twl Las , Missile Launcher
2x Forgefiend w/ Hades Autocannon
1x Heldrake w/ Baleflamer


dont mean to hijack this thread, figured coz the backbone units are identical its a place to start

The Rhino limits the number of outgoing shots considerably, but FNP is a bit expensive for a squad that size. I would favor taking more bodies in the footslogger squad, rather than transports or upgrates. One noise marine with a sonic blaster is 20 pts, so you should be able to toss another two in there and total at 1496 so far.

That way you get those saves at a 3+ armour rather than a 5+ FNP, plus another 2 or 3 shots if he lives.

Also, I know its not fluffy, but taking that Sorc without the MoS gives him 3 chances to roll Relentless/FNP (Biomancy 3 - Endurance) rather than the 2 he might get now.

I agree with what your saying.
Will try it out with +2 NM w/ Sonic Blasters and extra ccw's.
The CSM Sorcerer dude needs MoS to unlock Noise Marines as troops. If you can think of a better way to build this please let me know.

I did some quick math, and the 8x Sonic Blaster Noise Marine squad looks better than a 3rd Blast Master in Rhino unit.

Sorc with MoS doesn't unlock anyone.

Sorc with MoT unlocks Thousand Sons. All the rest are unlocked by the Lord or named characters.

Also, it was recently pointed out to me that if you take a Sonic Blaster, you cannot add OR swap for a CCW.


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My new favorite option to get NM as troops is to take a Lord with MoS, and the Buring Brand, stick him in a NM squad of Sonic Blasters and give a Doom Siren to the champ. No one wants to charge two very nasty flamers, but if you don't charge 'em, they are dumping a mass of fire all over you.

Wow, yea i overlooked that by a mile. I just assumed that the Sorc unlocked Noise Marines..

I figured this list was originally going to have Noise Marine Weapons boosts from the Slanesh psychr table..
Feel like i am asking a lot, Thank you for the advice by the way.

HQ:
CSM Lord MOS, Power Armour , BP , Brand of Skalanthax , PW , Sigil of Coruption , Spell Familiar
TROOP:
1x Noise Marine w/ Blastmaster , 4x Noise Marine w/ Bolter , Noise Champ w/ ccw bolt pistol , in Rhino
1x Noise Marine w/ Blastmaster , 4x Noise Marine w/ Bolter , Noise Champ w/ ccw bolt pistol , in Rhino
5x Noise Marine w/ Sonic Blaster w/ , Noise Champ w/ BP , PW , Doom Siren , 2x Noise Marine w/ Bolter
Other:
2x Hellbrute w/ Twl Las , Missile Launcher
2x Forgefiend w/ Hades Autocannon
1x Heldrake w/ Baleflamer


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Two Questions

1. If the MoS Lord is in Terminator amour with the unit of Sonic Blaster Noise Marines. If they win an assault can a sweeping advance be made because the unit has an independent character with Terminator Armour?

2. If the Noise Marine unit has an Icon of Excess and the MoS Lord is part of the unit.. Does the FNP apply to the Lord?

3. Thoughts on a Spell Familar for the MoS Lord? I think the results would be to unreliable to count on.

Lucius is okay. He's very fluffy. Problem is, hes a character tooled up for close combat duels, but unless he's facing a naked Tac Sarge he has trouble delivering. He only has one weapon (the Lash is an artifact, not a second weapon, sadly.), his sword can't break a +2 armour, he doesn't have eternal warrior, no invul save, and his attacks can actually go DOWN if whoever hes dueling has a poor WS. All this for a 165 points.

Compare to a Lord, MoS, Power Sword, The Burning Brand (to replace the Doom Siren since he can't take one), and VotLW for 115 points.
That gives you an extra attack for Sword/pistol, and a template that is -1 Strength, but gets Torrent instead. You lose the silly armour strikeback, the -1 to enemy attacks, and Shred. WS went down by 1, as did initiative, but they are still high. Plus you can customize the Lord, adding Terminator armour, or a Murder Sword, or whatever.

Like I said, he's not bad, but he's nothing to write home about.


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1. I think that is correct, they would not be able to Sweep.
2. Yes it does.
3. The spell familiar is pointless as the Lord isn't a psyker.


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I might go something like this:

HQ:
CSM Lord MOS, Power Armour, Brand of Skalanthax , Power Axe, Sigil of Corruption
TROOP:
1x Noise Marine w/ Blastmaster , 4x Noise Marine w/ Bolter , Noise Champ w/ ccw bolt pistol , in Rhino
1x Noise Marine w/ Blastmaster , 4x Noise Marine w/ Bolter , Noise Champ w/ ccw bolt pistol , in Rhino
7x Noise Marine w/ Sonic Blaster w/ , Noise Champ w/ BP , Power Sword , Doom Siren
Other:
2x Hellbrute w/ Twl Las , Missile Launcher
2x Forgefiend w/ Hades Autocannon
1x Heldrake w/ Baleflamer

The mobile squad has an axe in case of terminators, a sword for power armour, and both carrying scary AP3 flamer templates, backed up by a massive torrent of fire, 21 ignore cover shots once they are in position. You might take a PF on the Lord rather than the Axe, as you already lost the Bolt Pistol when you bought the Brand.

If the unit cannot sweeping advance that is .... almost a positive unless i am mistaken.

If the NM win an assault, they cannot make sweeping advance.. They can then shoot three shots each and two templates in my shooting phase.
and if my NM squad is charged. The unit strikes at I5 without counter attack .. but you are right they strike first.

If you don't take the terminator armour, you can sweep, and kill the whole squad if you catch them. If you do take it, you won't be able to shoot again until you have wiped the squad out manually.


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This comes to 1482, just short of adding one more NM with a Sonic Blaster. You could add a bolter NM as a bonus wound, if you wanted.

HQ
Chaos Lord (135pts) Bolt Pistol, Burning Brand of Skalanthrax, Mark of Slaanesh, Power Armour, Sigil of Corruption

Elites
Helbrute (135pts) Missile Launcher w/Frag & Krak Missiles, Twin-linked Lascannon
Helbrute (135pts) Missile Launcher w/Frag & Krak Missiles, Twin-linked Lascannon

Troops
Noise Marines (160pts) Blastmaster, 4x Noise Marine
Noise Champion, Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon
Chaos Rhino

Noise Marines (160pts) Blastmaster, 4x Noise Marine
Noise Champion, Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon
Chaos Rhino

Noise Marines (197pts)
9x Noise Marine, 9x Sonic Blaster
Noise Champion, Bolt Pistol, Doom Siren, Power Sword

Fast Attack
Heldrake (170pts) Baleflamer

Heavy Support
Forgefiend (175pts) Hades Autocannon
Forgefiend (175pts) Hades Autocannon

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I keep looking over that list. Good Lord, thats a lot of firepower.

Im checking the FAQ and my CSM Codex to see if the noise marines are compliant with the rules.

HQ
Chaos Lord (160pts) Bolt Pistol, Burning Brand of Skalanthrax, Mark of Slaanesh, Power Armour, Sigil of Corruption, Power Fist

Elites
Helbrute (135pts) Missile Launcher w/Frag & Krak Missiles, Twin-linked Lascannon
Helbrute (135pts) Missile Launcher w/Frag & Krak Missiles, Twin-linked Lascannon

Troops
Noise Marines (166pts)
1x Blastmaster, 2x Sonic Blaster, 1x Boltgun
Noise Champion, Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon
Chaos Rhino

Noise Marines (166pts)
1x Blastmaster, 2x Sonic Blaster, 1x Boltgun
Noise Champion, Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon
Chaos Rhino

Noise Marines (217pts)
8x Noise Marine, 8x Sonic Blaster
Noise Champion, Bolt Pistol, Doom Siren, Power Sword

Fast Attack
Heldrake (170pts) Baleflamer

Heavy Support
Forgefiend (175pts) Hades Autocannon
Forgefiend (175pts) Hades Autocannon

Looking at my codex I'd buff the Lord even more with terminator armor. He has the 4+ inv save from the sigil and you can make his armor save go down from 3 to 2. for 40 pts you "replace all his wargear with terminator armour, a power weapon, and a combi-bolter" which i take to mean as being able to give him a power weapon (replace with power fist=10pts) and the nice cushy armor. I can be easily mistaken though.
MoS Lord combi-bolter, Burning Brand of Skalanthrax, Terminator Armour, Sigil of Corruption, power Fist =185?
Hard to kill, can do damage, and has the chance to keep getting boons.

It is entierly up to you.
A CSM Lord in terminator armour is an independent character that cannot fit inside a rhino, which means this model will have a bullseye on his back unless it joins a unit. (Slay the Warlord).

When the CSM Lord joins a unit and this unit wins an assult. coz the model is in terminator armour the unit cannot make a sweeping advance "catching and free killing models".

^^^See the Posts above^^^

For the "cost differential" Energy Return on Investment EROI.
Power armour Sigil of Corruption gives a 3/+4++ (25pts)
Termi Armour gets 2+/5++ (40pts)
Termi Armour w/ Sigil 2+/4++ (65pts)

The chaos codex requires models to make or accept challenges. Its safe to assume the Meta challenger is a Character with an AP weapon potential.

Chances are your gonna be relying on the invunerable save.
***Sidenote I always use Kharne who has the Power Armour Sigil combo, and its a tough call to say whats better.

I'm completely new to this so I know I'm naive. But why can't it go inside a Rhino? terminator armor is bulky so I thought that it simply counts as two. Won't it be able to transport, disembark so its 2" away from the unit and act as an independent character?

Its all good, made me do a double take. The section on Chaos Terminators in the CSM codex: (pg 97)

"The Unit may take a Chaos Land Raider as a Dedicated Transport"

Troops
Noise Marines (166pts)
1x Blastmaster, 2x Sonic Blaster, 1x Boltgun
Noise Champion, Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon
Chaos Rhino

I understand its not normal to use a mixure like this, but the Rhinos allow two guns to be fired out of.. So Blastmaster and a Sonic Blaster pop shots.
.. Also coz i ran out of points i figured that a single CSM Noise Marine with Sonic Blaster not a game changer by anymeans however this equals the same points cost to upgrade 4 bolters to Sonic Blasters "Fluff" and 12 ignore cover shots thats alot of firepower. Mainly let me use the most of my points

Ahhhh, ok... that makes me sad... costs so many points haha. But with that in mind I guess terminator armor really is more restricting then helpful. Meh an extra 25pts i guess
Also, why would you do bolt guns over sonic blasters? its only 3 more points and adds 1-2 extra shots depending

Don't forget taking the Brand requires that you swap out a weapon, usually the Bolt Pistol or combi-bolter, depending on armour.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, the reason the terminator armoured Lord cannot get in the Rhino is in the Rhino entry itself.

From pg. 54: "Transport Capacity: Ten models. Chaos Rhinos cannot carry models with the Bulky, Very Bulky or Extremely Bulky special rules."

If you are going to go Noise Marines - think three flavors.

1 - 5 NM with 1 Blastmaster in a Rhino with Havoc Launcher...
This is relatively cheap and can provide support fire.

2 - 5 tp 20 NM with Sonic Blasters on foot. This provides awesome firepower that ignores cover.

3. 10 NM with extra CCW and fully kitted out noise marine champion with power maul or lightning claw and doom siren.
This goes in a rhino with dirge caster and perhaps a combi-weapon. You can reduce it to 9 guys so that Lucius or your lord can fit inside.