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playing my brother this weekend. Lately he has been wiping the floor against me. We play 2k points battle and he runs:

Lucius the enternal
sorcerer

20 terminators
1 tzteech psycker
thousand sons marines
cultists
noise marines.

3 havoc squads with 6 las 6 melta

any tips or advice for my army would be great.

Well, at first glance it's apparent that you need to pop those 20 Terminators--that's where he has invested heavily. So AP 2 is what you need, as much of it as you can get, and probably PC is your best bet because the Blast might kill more than one at a time. He doesn't have vehicles, so depending on what you have you could go mobile/mech and try to outmaneuver him.

What do you have? What do your lists normally look like? More information might help in terms of advice.

Doesnt seem like a very strong list actually. What's up with having 6 lascannons and 6 melta guns on havocs? Most of the time, those 6 meltas will be totally wasted.

Unless he deeps strikes in the terminators, his army is actually very slow (unless those troops are in Rhinos). If he is foot slogging across the board, you have a lot of time to shoot him up, then its more of target priority and focusing on killing 1 unit at a time. If his termis are foot slogging and you have a fast army, you can avoid the whole game rendering them useless.

His long range is just 6 las cannons. That's actually not a lot. Theoratically, you should be able to build a list that outshoots him easily especially since we are talking about 2000 points. here. Alternatively, if you invest in lots of bodies, then those 6 lascannons will be irrelevant because they will kill 3 or 4 infantry models per turn.

You could take 3 squads of devastators with lascannons and you will outshoot him easily and still have lots of points left for the rest ofyour army.

That's not a particularly strong CSM list. CSM can do some really nasty things to give BA fits, but this list looks a bit like ghetto Deathwing.

I have 2 drop pods so I like to use those, one with a sternguard and the other with a TH/SS Termie AS. I also have Dante and SG who I used to take out one of the havoc squads first turn typically, but they typically arent alive for long. I was thinking of adding a priest and libby to that squad and it would be rather dangerous and with fNp and shield should live longer. I think i will definitely outgun him with 3 dev squads and rock plasma cannons on them. I also have Mephiston, Tycho, and Corbulo. I like Mephiston but against all those termies I found out one game he just wasnt that effective and havent used him since. I was thinking putting tycho and Corbulo with the sternguard would make them pretty nasty. I thought about making more of a shooty list, but I felt that went against why i chose BA. I also have a LR Redeemer. Havent gotten SR gunships yet, I could see their usefulness, but at only AV 12 they would seem to attract a lot of fire.

A libby is better than Tycho.

Are those MULTImeltas with his havocs? Either way its a lot of anti tank. Id stay away from armor. Devs with PCs sound good. Adl with no upgrades for your devs & put a priest with one, but between both and your rock solid.

Div Libbi in term armors probably better than Tycho. I've never tried Corbulo, I just don't see the attraction. The whole ''Put him in front & he'll stop any sterngaurd from ever dieing EVER!'' idea seems like bunk. Expensive bunk. A priest in Term armor can about as well for 20 points less. Not to mention I don't like putting my FNP charm IN FRONT as a freaking BULLET MAGNET.

All this advice assumes this CSM list doesn't change. That's why I hate tailoring and try to build solid TAC lists. It's hard with BA, though.

It might sound dumb, and you guys will probably laugh, but I think this is the one list that a big dumb blob of BA DC could go against and fair pretty well.

Well. It depends on how savvy the CSM player is. DC charge 5 terminators, killing them all. They get counter charged by 15 terminators and all die like slime.

My brother is pretty arrogant. I am confident he will not change his list or it will be a slight variation. Guaranteed he will have no less than 20 termies.

How does this look:
HQ:
Libby with SS

HG x4 PG

Elites:

Priests x2 one with TA and one with JP

Terminator AS x10 x10 TH/SS

Troops:

Tactical x5 teleport homer
AS x5 with Drop pod x1 PG
AS x5 x1 PG
AS x5 w/ Rzbk LC/TLPG
AS x5 w/ Rzbk LC/TLPG

Heavy Support:
Dev Squad x3 x11 PC

Thoughts? I like termies but in this instance if think sternguard might be better im open to suggestions. HG and tactical in drop pod and then teleport termies in.

Thanks for all the input and feedback

 g0atsticks wrote:
It might sound dumb, and you guys will probably laugh, but I think this is the one list that a big dumb blob of BA DC could go against and fair pretty well.

The only part I'll laugh at is the notion that it wouldn't do well against most other lists. 30 DC is scary, even just with bolters.
Good idea in this case though, as are plasma Devastators. Plasma gun Honour Guard are another good bet, although they're susceptible to being taken out if too many Termies are left alive nearby.

My other normal advice would be to concentrate on the troops, but unfortunately 2 cult squads and cultists can be a lot to take down for BA. *HOWEVER*, it's not too much to ask to tie them up. Thousand Sons and Noise Marines are only marginally better than normal Marines in assault, so a larger BA squad can keep them held up and unable to move for objectives. That just leaves the Cultists... doesn't look like he's figured in a way to make them Fearless, so these should be a doddle to break and then run down.