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So the meta at my FLGS has become lots of long range shooting matches. There are a ton of guard players (I'm one of them), some tau, some gunline marines, some eldar, and that one daemon guy (he's the outlier lol). I want to start a new army that will just shake everything up. So I've been looking at space wolves. The main reason is that no one plays them really atm, but something caught my eye while reading the book. Ragnar Blackmane is famed for his drop pod assaults and berserk charges. So I want to make a 100% drop pod army to land behind all of the aegises (aegii?) with the wolves of Fenris. Pretty much like this:



So my questions are:

1) How many drop pods need to come in turn one?

2) What do I put in these drop pods, especially for antitank? Also, where should I get concentrated special weapons?

3) Who is a good babysitter for Blood Claws in a drop pod?

Any help from experienced Space wolf players, or who am I kidding, any help at all would be greatly appreciated.

1) Half of the total you have rounding up. Got six pods? Three come in turn 1. Got seven? Four come in turn 1.
2) Two Meltaguns in Grey Hunter squads works well. So does Combi-melta spam wolfguard. Spamming this setup should remove any armor problems. If you really want to cheese them, take Logan Grimnar and 6 Long Fangs with 5 Multimeltas. He can give the squad relentless.
3) You really don't want to do Blood Claws. Ragnar's fluff doesn't translate into the rules; you can't assault out of Drop Pods.

I can't speak for wolves, but only pods in general.

You want to land HARD first turn. You need to hit your targets and cripple them so the return fire won't wipe you off the table. They will probably have their whole army present, and you are just going to have a fraction. You need local superiority. Cluster on one flank. Try to limit LOS. Use your pods as cover.

One of the perks of pod lists is you decide who drops where, and when. Have different pods set up for various targets. Have a pod full of melta to drop next to tanks, one with flamers for troops, etc. Flexible builds are for people who need to react; your goal is to make your opponent react to you. Have the right tools and put them in the right place.

Odd numbers of pods maximizes first turn impact.

Make sure anything you start on the table can take a pounding, because they are going to eat the full brunt of your opponent's fury if you go second.

Why not Blood Claws? They will still hit things on a 4+ and get soo many attacks. They are also a good spot to put flamers, as they are bs3, and as a guard player, I know that that bs4 is sacred and not to be wasted.I was thinking that a wolf priest would be a good babysitter for them too. Would terminators be a good candidate for a turn one drop in a pod?

My argument against them in this case isn't their stats, it's that they have to sit in the open for a turn before they can assault.

Grey hunters are better than blood claws in every way. If you take a grey hunter unit with melta guns, Wolf standard and MotW you now have a good shooty and pretty good assault unit. Swap it up a bit for plasma guns instead.

As other said odd number of pods is better, I would at least try to get 5 pods minimum so you have 3 coming in on turn 1.

Maybe throw a rune priest in each of the pods so you can have JAWS on them and just shoot line attacks all over.

You will also want long fangs to sit in the back field and split fire missile spam.

Other than that their isnt much more to suggest aside from using hunter units with the above loadouts and possibly doing rune priest shinanigans, then try to have long fangs in the backfield.

Long fangs sitting on the table in an all drop podding army? I realize they are normally a good choice, but I think I'll pass in this army.

I feel like people will underestimate the blood claws, and go for the hunters instead, especially if a squad blows up a tank the turn it comes in.

I don't know what your current meta allows, but if your opponents say Forgeworld stuff can be played in non-Apocalypse games, I HIGHLY recommend running Lucius pattern drop pods, especially if you're having a hard time dealing with armor. I've been experimenting with Tau/allied Marines, and on multiple occasions my opponents have lamented the two Dreadnoughts that are assaulting everything they love turn 1.

How would dreadnoughts fare in a SW drop pod list? How many and which weapons?

I think the best possible SW drop pod list looks something like this.

Logan
Rune Priest
Rune Priest

Six 7 man Wolf Guard Squads (6 PA, 1 TDA) (some 7 combi melta, some 7 combi plasma, some 6 flamer one HF)

One LF squad (I'd suggest MMs and/or PCs) with an attached TDAWG Cyclone and Logan.

With two COTS, and no other upgrades but combis, LF weapons, and terminator armor (and HF, Cyclone) that comes out to just under 2k. It's an absolute "all or nothing" type list, but you won't get more first turn firepower out of the codex.

How about a venerable dreadnought with a multimelta or an assault cannon, with saga of majesty, and a drop pod? It helps with the leadership 8, and adds some decent anti armor, especially rear armor. Also, he's no slouch in an assault if he survives.

I think a lot of the suggestions are good. I play against space wolves a lot, but they don't use drop pods very often. I am going to be getting a few for my DA I think, and the best use of them seems to be to hit hard, and exactly where you want (in the general area).

Use the flexibility of wolf gaurd combi-weapons to your advantage, as well as armor variants.

You could do a squad like

9 wolf gaurd. 8 in Power Armor, one in TDA. Give the TDA a storm shield and power weapon and/or combi weapon. Then give the rest of the squad combi weapons (to fill the anti tank, infantry or elite role). The TDA is there to soak up wounds from any plasma, hopefully, on the first turn and can be a decent charge deterrent as well. It is more expensive but could also give you a bit more survivability.

Drop aggressiveley and together, use your drop pod as cover and try and land to deny your opponents cover too. You can do a one-two punch pretty well against transports etc by popping with melta from one squad then blasting with plasma guns if they are elite.

Also, Grey Hunters are probably point for point the best troop unit in the SW book, and possible in the entire game. Use them to your heart's content. And remember you have counter-attack so if you get charged, there is a good chance you will still effectively get the charge benefits (aka Grey Hunters are gross for the points). This could be useful against melee heavy armies if you deep strike in their face. They basically have to charge you or else they will get charged themselves in the next turn. You get to land, shoot, then get charged and overwatch. Having some combi-flamers (maybe 2?) is possibly a good idea for this, but probably not necessary. Also, if you can get behind the lines of IG type armies, bolters can tear them to shreds if they have no cover save especially with a rune priest with divination.

- VardenV2


Automatically Appended Next Post:
^ abuse the focus fire rule to your advantage in this case too. If say, ten of their guys are not in cover, go ahead and choose no cover save. You are basically guaranteed ten kills as opposed to maybe causing more wounds and then having them saved due to cover. Drop pods can position your guys in prime spots to hit heavy weapon teams etc too. So be on the look out for those types of juicy exposed targets.

Drop podding SW probably isn't a bad idea, might really frustrate some players that are too used to the sit back and shoot mentality that is easy to get into this edition.

I don't own any marine armies currently, so my views are from an opponents perspective.

I would not take any Dreads. I know the concept is nice, and lots of Marine players love them (to a fault), but they are just not scary. I am much more worried when a full squad of Marine drops in my DZ than I am when a Dread drops in. Marines are harder to kill than a single Dread. Marines do more damage. Marines can take my objectives. The first point is the most important, your opponents are ok with you dropping a vehicle right in front (or to the side) of all his Meltas.

Bottom line, I'd go for as many Grey Hunters as you can. 30-40 Grey hunters dropping right on your opponent turn 1 is messed up. They'll still be around the next turn, which leads me to the next point.

I think it might be a good idea to go with bikes or Thunderwolf cav for the units that have to start on the board. They're tough, you can hide them, they hit decently enough, and they are fast enough to really support the Grey Hunters on turn 2. Forces your opponent into making a choice, does he shoot the 30 Hunters that just dropped in his back yard, or try to kill the tough nasty units that are now in position to assault him next turn. If you rig it this way everything will be engaged turn 2, just the way Wolves like it.

@ Ghastli- Major Kudoes to you for making an effort to mix things up in your club.

Drop pods are fantastic for crippling gun lines. I take 5 in my army right now to allow 3 turn 1.

Or, you could go all the way and start a Tyranids army. I started in 40k as a nids player because the club near me was all tau and guard gun lines back in 5th. Nids sorta have a pod too.

Also, I agree with taking Lucious pattern FW drop pods. (Blood Angels can't in normal games which sucks for me) A lucious and a cc dred of any stripe are great at soaking up a lot of fire turn 1 to allow your other pod units to do their assigned tasks. Just make sure to assault any unit in their army with low ap shooting capability. (devastators/vets...etc...)

I don't know as much about Space Wolves, but this is something I have seriously considered with my Blood Angels. We have Fragiosos, which beg for drop pod usage. It would be sweet to have those Rune Priests up close and personal shutting down enemy psykers however... hmm.. might have to ally.

It's not a bad idea, just pray they don't get smart and bring GK allies for warp quake or use huge blob squads to fill the table and deny a safe landing area for your drop pods.

 Peregrine wrote:
It's not a bad idea, just pray they don't get smart and bring GK allies for warp quake or use huge blob squads to fill the table and deny a safe landing area for your drop pods.

That means the meta has been changed up, ergo mission accomplished.

 Kain wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
It's not a bad idea, just pray they don't get smart and bring GK allies for warp quake or use huge blob squads to fill the table and deny a safe landing area for your drop pods.

That means the meta has been changed up, ergo mission accomplished.

Not really. Those counters don't really change the fundamental nature of the long range shooting match, it just means that people are taking gunlines that also contain drop pod counters.

Have fun getting eaten alive by Drakes. Pre-Drake I love it, post-Drake, not so much. The horde MEQ army took such a hit with Drakes around. And DPs add up quickly, especially if you want a nice durable initial drop of 40-50 Marines. A lot of strong shooting armies with loads of infantry will mess up marines. My Tau/Ork list played vs 70 marine wolves with pods and I killed 50 in 2 shooting phases. Obviously anecdotal, but it demonstrates that there are armies who have extreme shooting that will cripple drop marines.

LValx wrote:
Have fun getting eaten alive by Drakes. Pre-Drake I love it, post-Drake, not so much. The horde MEQ army took such a hit with Drakes around. And DPs add up quickly, especially if you want a nice durable initial drop of 40-50 Marines. A lot of strong shooting armies with loads of infantry will mess up marines. My Tau/Ork list played vs 70 marine wolves with pods and I killed 50 in 2 shooting phases. Obviously anecdotal, but it demonstrates that there are armies who have extreme shooting that will cripple drop marines.

If you think Drakes are scary you clearly don't have enough Sabres in your list. If you want a solid group to start on the board take an Allied IG Platoon loaded up with Sabres with an Earth Shaker Battey then Attach a Rune Priest to one of the squads and put them all behind an Agies Line. If your oponent has first turn they will have to shoot away at ton of T7 models that can Go to Ground for 2++ cover save. Then they can face a ton of Angry SW landing in there face and a whole heap of rounds hitting them in the face.

Well, if FW is accepted in your area, then Sabres are awesome.

Drop Pod Space Wolves. It is kind of what I do.

Nevelon wrote:You want to land HARD first turn. You need to hit your targets and cripple them so the return fire won't wipe you off the table. They will probably have their whole army present, and you are just going to have a fraction. You need local superiority. Cluster on one flank. Try to limit LOS. Use your pods as cover.

One of the perks of pod lists is you decide who drops where, and when. Have different pods set up for various targets. Have a pod full of melta to drop next to tanks, one with flamers for troops, etc. Flexible builds are for people who need to react; your goal is to make your opponent react to you. Have the right tools and put them in the right place.

Odd numbers of pods maximizes first turn impact.

Make sure anything you start on the table can take a pounding, because they are going to eat the full brunt of your opponent's fury if you go second.

Remember his words. Particularly the first paragraph. Take them to heart!

ghastli wrote:Why not Blood Claws? They will still hit things on a 4+ and get soo many attacks. They are also a good spot to put flamers, as they are bs3, and as a guard player, I know that that bs4 is sacred and not to be wasted.I was thinking that a wolf priest would be a good babysitter for them too. Would terminators be a good candidate for a turn one drop in a pod?

ghastli wrote:How would dreadnoughts fare in a SW drop pod list? How many and which weapons?

Okay, so here is the thing with Blood Claws: They have two advantages: Berserker Charge and the fact you can take 15 of them. Their disadvantages, however, are huge: They cost the same as Grey Hunters, they only have Pistols, they can't take as many Special Weapons, they have to have a WGPL or IC leading them or they'll go all suicidal and charge a Dreadnought with no means to take it down, they are hit more often in close combat, the only transport they fit in is a LRC otherwise they should be on foot.

There are places for Blood Claws. I have no problem taking them in a 100% foot list without Drop Pods, but they have no place in a Drop Pod list.

Grey Hunters are perfect for Drop Pod Assaults. With a Wolf Standard, Power Sword, and MotW (minimally MOTW, but since you can take both...) and two close combat weapons a piece as well as having Bolters and 2 Meltagun/Plasma Gun and BS4 they give you the versatility you need in your units when you Go Deep.

But here is the thing, Grey Hunters alone are not good enough. You need heavy weapons. If you don't do allies, you only have a few options. The favorite, even in Drop Pod lists, is Long Fangs. There are a few ways to use them. Either setup 3 units on the table at the start of the game and hope (I dislike this option). In this setup you would also take Drop Pods with them and deploy the pods empty. This allows you to have more Drop Pods full of Grey Hunters hit on Turn 1. Or you can get unconventional... You can deploy your Long Fangs inside their Drop Pods.

Many people hate this idea. But you can snap fire non-blast weapons now, which helps. I have a unit with 3 Multi-Meltas that I tend to keep in my 'second wave' that I'll drop near any enemy Flyer that game in on their Turn 2. Since I can only Snap Fire anyways... As someone else mentioned, Logan Grimnar can make a unit Relentless, but that's a bit of a price just to get Long Fangs.

What I would do instead is take 2-3 Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods. If Forge World is allowed, Lucius Drop Pods are sin. Otherwise, regular Drop Pods and Assault Cannons with either TL Autocannon, ML, or just a Heavy Flamer is what I would recommend. The Heavy 4 is more important than Melta, particularly with enemy flyers. 4 S6 Rending and 2 S7 shots on enemy side armor will take out most ground vehicles as well.

I would highly recommend taking 3 if you take any Dreadnoughts. It means you won't have Wolf Guard, but your Grey Hunters can take a free special weapon this way. Also, you can always use your HQ in the same role as the WG anyways. Really, you only take the WG for the extra Leadership so if you take 2-4 HQ choices you are likely going to be fine anyways.

Point is, you need some artillery. While I love Plasma Guns and tend to bring 3 GH units with Plasma and 2 with Melta in my Pod lists, I still have to bring other weapons to deal with tough enemy units and their Flyers. Consider taking a cheap IG allied detachment with an ADL and a lot of Autocannons or something.


By the way, Ragnar is an awesome choice for an HQ for this. He is fantastic in a unit of Grey Hunters (his +D3 attacks really shines in that unit combined with a Wolf Standard. Almost guarantees you get 2-3 attacks extra instead of just 1) and the fact he can give a Furious Charge bubble once per game can be very handy. Just a shame he is only AP 3 in close combat!


Definitely see if you can play a few proxy games to get a feel for it. You'll find that most players have no idea how to deal with Drop Pods. 40-50 Space Marines arriving in their lap tends to throw them off balance. Placement of your Drop Pods has surprising effects on the game with the way they block line of sight and movement.

Oh and just FYI, with enemy Flyers having to move a minimum of 18" you can have some fun with placement of your Pods on the enemy back line. Since they automatically reduce their scatter distance if they would land on impassible terrain (like enemy troops) you can land close enough to his board edge that the flyers have to zoom over your army and spend a turn or two turning around, or going into Hover....

GH vs. BC it's easy to make this choice.

Do I want to put more than 10 in one squad? If no, you play GHs for that slot. If yes, you pick BC for the slot.

If you pick BC that means they are either in a land raider or hoofing it. All other transports can't support them.