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I am starting back with WarmaHordes and am planning on getting Circle first. I love the "stone" models in the faction and want to know if it is feasible to have an effective list using nothing, but the constructs?

Any help is highly appreciated. Thanks in advance to everyone who responds.

there's a few casters that are construct based but I believe he still uses skin walkers and such to make an effective list.

My local circle players run the new horsey caster and generally poop on everyone so I'm not sure really what makes an effective construct list, just that its doable

If you want to run nothing but constructs and your warlock, you will be disappointed, since you do need SOME infantry in your list to make it work (this is the same advice that is given to warmachine players who want to run nothing but jacks, at any game size above battle box your list just won't be effective). That being said, either version of Baulder prefers to be with Constructs rather than with living warbeasts, and there are a couple of others that can be run with a mix. If you like constructs, I would start by picking up both Baulders and Megalith and then building from there.

Someone won Hardcore at Adepticon this year with a construct heavy Circle list.

eBaldur (Tier 4)
-Woldwatcher
-Woldwatcher
-Woldwatcher
-Megalith
-Wold Guardian
Shifting Stones
Shifting Stones + UA
Druids (no UA)
Gallows Grove
Gallows Grove
Celestial Fulcrum

Aside from eBaldur and the Druids, that's all constructs if I'm not mistaken.

Yeah, if you want to play construct heavy, you want the Baldurs. I hear Mohsar is also pretty good with them, but I haven't tried it myself.

I assume Baldur is the best caster for constructs?

Yeah, he's the Construct Warlock.

Wolds have a few shortcomings designed into their rules,
1. Low Fury, expect wolds to have one less point than comparable beasts.
2. Low Strength/Armor, wolds are relatively pillow fisted on their own, as well as having moderate armor (coupled with the lowest defense you will find on heavys).
3. Slow speed, compared to the rest of circle beasts (5-6), the wolds are all pretty slow (4-5).
4. Cannot be healed.

The baldurs are nice in that the free charge they give constucts basically eliminates the fury reduction. They both have spells that can increase beast armor into competitive ranges. Also the free power attacks basically mean that any time your beasts arnt planning on being in melee they can trample forward for free, effectively giving them +3 speed and still allowing further actions such as geomancy/animus. Lastly, the Baldurs can heal constructs, so no more losing an aspect and having to wait for a sending stone to bounce over and heal your critter.

All that being added in, you are STILL going to have a hard time with heavy armor, and I find most of my Baldur games are won on objectives... Rather than just smashing your way to the caster, which takes a bit of psychology and foresight to pull off effectively. Still it can be frustrating if you pull off the perfect gameplay but still don't have quite enough 'oomph' to finish off your target, I don't know how many times I've masterfully dissected a Khador list only to have a camped butcher shrug off my assassination and then proceed to mow through my heavys.

I think wolds are a good place to learn circle, they are reliable for turns you mismanage fury and are versatile enough to cover whatever you need on a turn by turn basis (watcher/warden/mega/wrath), along with a couple of more specialized beasts if you feel a certain area is lacking: either the guardian for melee, or wyrd for ranged/anti magic.

I would suggest pBaldur's tier force, as you can get to 35 with the only living models being the caster and unit leaders. I feel it plays much like WW2 naval battles, allowing you to take a strong position early while protecting your capitol ships (heavy beasts), then you can blast away at over extended units/engage in favorable match ups. Other good tier lists would be eBaldur and eKreuger's alternate NQ list, which I believe are both construct only.

I would say that all the other casters either favor a mix of living and construct, or are focused more on the living beasts for raw hitting power/maneuverability (which most 'constructionists' develop a taste for eventually )

That was most helpful. Thanks. Lots of highs and lows in your reply there. I started and was like "they suck" then I was "they are good then, and you finished me with a "I need a lot of luck". I have a bit to consider now.

Kiwidru wrote:
Wolds have a few shortcomings designed into their rules,
1. Low Fury, expect wolds to have one less point than comparable beasts.
2. Low Strength/Armor, wolds are relatively pillow fisted on their own, as well as having moderate armor (coupled with the lowest defense you will find on heavys).
3. Slow speed, compared to the rest of circle beasts (5-6), the wolds are all pretty slow (4-5).
4. Cannot be healed.

Semi false.

Shifting stone can also heal them.

Also, regarding construct troops, you have woldstalkers. Ranged infantry that can kill a surprisingly high amount of things, but have virtually nonexistent CC skills.

I would suggest some Wolves of Orboros if you're going as construct heavy as possible. They provide a cheap screening unit that can reliably put a dent in some things on the charge.

Also OP, keep in mind that while Circle doesn't hit quite as hard, or be quite as tough as other factions, it's their mobility that greatly assists them. While other armies might have to walk up to you and hit you, in Circle you can half a warpwolf stalker teleport from one unit of shifting stones to another unit, and teleport from that unit to behind whatever you want to die. This kind of mobility shenanigans really throws some people off.

Druids of Orboros cannot heal Constructs. Shifting Stones and Baldur can because their rules explicitly override the usual rule preventing Constructs from being healed.

And stuff.

 Blaque wrote:
Druids of Orboros cannot heal Constructs. Shifting Stones and Baldur can because their rules explicitly override the usual rule preventing Constructs from being healed.

And stuff.

I derped. A side effect of reading too many battle reports on the net and not getting enough game time in.

I wouldn't say you need a lot of luck to win necessarily, but rather playing wolds (and in my opinion circle in general), is a lot like wielding a surgeons scalpel. You are gonna need a lot of luck if you are trying to hack a guys limbs off with it, but with a few key slices on the proper tendons and you can disable even the strongest opponent. It just takes a while to recognize those opportunities and weak links when they present themselves.

Of course that applies to Circle in general as well, its just more so than a "normal" list.

All this is worrisome to me now. I have always been know as a sledgehammer type gamer. I am, however, committed to Circle, so we shall see if I can become a scalpel gamer. I really just like the look of the constructs to much to let this one go.

So if i get all this straight...100% Baldur for my caster. Shifting stones are a must. I need some kind of heavy CC infantry for screening my awesome ranged stuff (Wolves of Orborus). BE THE SCALPEL, NOT THE HAMMER. Wolds are actually made of glass, not stone. And, finally, get over Wolds and except that I need to have beasts as well.

Did I miss anything?

Yeah, if you play circle like a sledgehammer you'll probably be sorely disappointed. This applies to both Wolds and the regular beasts.

You can play just Wolds if you want too. Its just different, not bad.


And yes, Stones are pretty much mandatory. Take 2 units in fact. They're that good.

Also look into the stones UA. That ranged attack and granted stealth is delicious

I wouldn't get discouraged. It's not like wolds are that fragile. The Woldwarden is ARM 18, but it has 35 damage boxes (one more than most Khador heavies) and can create a forest at its base which is difficult terrain and gives it concealment.

The Wold Guardian is ARM 20 and its animus makes your opponent roll one less damage die when he shoots it.

Megalith is ARM 19 with 35 damage boxes and heals d3 damage every turn.

The Woldwatcher is a light with ARM 17 that can self-buff up to ARM 21 and has 24 damage boxes, one less than the Warpwolf Stalker.

And both Baldur1 and 2 carry defensive buffs. You're right when you say this isn't a sledgehammer type list, but I wouldn't say they're made of glass.

This is good news indeed. I was getting a bit worried reading some of the responses.

I have one final question for all of you. My group is starting with starter boxes. As we all know, there is no wold starter. Can any of you recommend a starter box equivalent list for me.

Again, thanks in advance for all the assistance.

If you are going Battlegroup only (only beasts) then the obvious one would be:
Megalith
Wyrd
Watcher
This comes to 21 points or the equivalent of a 15 point game, which is the ground floor for Warmahordes and comparable to most battlebox starters with two lights and a heavy.

I also didn't mean to frighten you with the disadvantages of wolds, as they have just as many advantages built in...

1. Non-living: We have the only nonliving beasts in the game, which is nice because their are many more units/spells that gain bonuses against living targets than against constructs, and those that do are generally meta-designed to take on jacks rather than beasts.

2. Magical Attacks: Our beasts can chew up incorporeal units or otherwise protected units just like anything else (which is nice cause that's one of the unit types that ignores our terrain shenanigans).

3. Geomancy: This trumps arcnodes in my opinion, and really makes megalith shine. You are basically getting additional spells at a reduced cost, as well as the ability to cast them at any time in the beasts activation. Common uses with pBaldur are:
Anti infantry: Animus (2), Trample 8" (0), geomancy earthspikes (1).
Anti high-Armor: Charge (0), geomancy stoneskin (1), two initials, Buy attacks (3).
Anti high-def: Animus (2), charge (0), boost to hit to make sure weight of stone lands (1), second initial, buy attack (1).
Anti badass über beast (my personal fav): Teleport to the back arc with stones, Geomancy stone skin (1), Lock the best weapon (0), buy attacks (3). (All locking needs is a hit, which you are doing at mat 9 from backstrike, mega is immune to knockdown, and will probably have more str than the target with stoneskin so he's gonna have a hard time breaking the lock. Even if he does he can't move because breaks happen after movement, and he can't retaliate against mega because he's not in the front arc)

4. Two open fists: Full range of power attacks, most notably two handed throw...

5. Pathfinder: Speed might be on the low side, but its not reduced in terrain.

6. Lots of Hp: Our wolds all have a lot of boxes in a pretty solid spread around the spirals, it's going to take 2-3 solid hits before you might start to lose aspects (especially with armor buffs).

Relating to common RPG elements, wolds are like berserkers (high hp, middling defense) that have multiclased for some variety rather the just all into melee prowess. The pillowfist stereotype comes from the fact that most factions have a beast or two thst can solo almost anything on the charge, whereas wolds can take out roughly 2/3s of a heavy jacks boxes on the charge... but wolds have the ability to do that extra damage at range prior to melee which most heavy hitters sacrifice.

At the end of the day wolds strength is that each one does a lot of stuff through abilities, and thus can threaten a variety of things... Either by being a force multiplier on your side, or by denying your opponent the ability to use his force multipliers against you.

Lastly, we are the only faction that can teleport... This alone really allows our heavys to gang up and one round opposing heavy hitters that our beasts would have a hard time soloing. (Or keeps a canny opponent worried about your counter attack if he over commits)

Hope it helps sooth the worry "Nobody sits like this rock sits. You rock, rock. The rock just sits and is. You show us how to just sit here and that's what we need."

The best that I can come up with is 13 points (while staying within the spirit of a battle box).
pBaldur (-6)
Woldwarden 9
Woldwyrd 5
Woldwatcher 5

You could swap in a Woldguardian for the warden for the same points. If you absolutely have to be at 12 points then it would be the guardian and the warden with pBaldur.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
The best that I can come up with is 13 points (while staying within the spirit of a battle box).
pBaldur (-6)
Woldwarden 9
Woldwyrd 5
Woldwatcher 5

You could swap in a Woldguardian for the warden for the same points. If you absolutely have to be at 12 points then it would be the guardian and the warden with pBaldur.

This is probably the closest thing to a construct only battlebox you can get. But I think I would go with Kiwidru's list instead. You will use Megalith a whole lot more with Baldur than a regular Woldwarden. Hell, Megs is practically mandatory in a eBaldur list. Get Megalith instead and proxy him as a Woldwarden if you have to.

Read this. http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?159177-How-to-use-eBaldur-s-tier-list The author is the guy who won Hardcore at Adepticon with the list I posted above. He runs down his tactics for each piece, how he counters his opponent's tactics, and the general playstyle of the list. See if you like how it plays.

The official Journeyman box for Baldur is:
Baldur, the Stonecleaver
- Wold Guardian
- Woldwarden

This comes to about 12pts. If you get Megalith instead of the Woldwarden it's still in the battlebox zone of things of 14pts, and you'll use Megalith more often, htough the Woldwarden isn't bad with Baldur1 I think.

And stuff.

I purposely avoided using Megalith because no battle box comes with a character jack/beast.
The warden is still useful even if you have megalith, especially if you want to spam a spell using geomancy.

Good points by Blaque and Leo on the battlebox, for some reason I thought they were designed around 15 point games as opposed to slightly under... Once you get to higher point values you will almost always want mega (I can't think of a situation where you wouldn't), and usually one or both of the other heavys, so I guess it doesn't really matter the order you get them.

Just throwing this out there, I know you want to run only constructs, but you don't think somewhere down the line you might want to try different ways of running orboros?

When I first started I hated the idea of running them. I thought the models looked goofy and I'd much rather just have flesh and fangs. However, as time went by, I started warming up to the idea of running constructs. And hey, with a little tweaking you can make some of those poses much much better than they are standard. Now I like to run both, and I can change my list according to how I'm feeling that day as opposed to sticking with one type and being stuck with that one type.

I am sure that I will eventually get other actual beasts once I get going. What is attracting me to Circle is the wold constructs though. I really like the clunky look of the wood and stone with the glowing power sigils. Because of this, I want to make a wold force, if it is feasible. If its not, then I will get my animal on. Once I start playing and actually learn the system and the force, I may decide I am a troll player and switch to them instead. My choice of Circle and wold constructs is purely a "Oh, piece of candy!" decision. This is why I came here to find out if this is a plausible start for me. So far, I have gotten a solid, "it's possible, but not easy.", response. If I can't do it, them I won't. If I can, then I look forward to bringing my stony justice to you all as I smite all that stands against me. I will burn villages, rape and pillage and, generally, make a nuisance of myself, like my ancestors before me.

Yesterday I played the list linked to above that won Hardcore at Adepticon this year. It's pretty neat a list, and does a skew with Circle that folks don't expect. I'd say give it a shot if anything. Plenty of Constructs about.

And stuff.