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Something that's going on at the official forum I thought we could do it here too. Since the ITS is going to allow spec ops with 12xp in a force, people are coming up with combinations that are either fluffy or just killers. So share what you want to do for your Spec Op with only 12xp.

For my Yu Jing I want a CC Wire-Fu type guy

Celestiald Guard Base
No stat increase
Combi-Rifle, Pistol, Knife
EXP CCW
AP CCW
Climbing Plus
Hyper Dynamics L2
Super Jump

Keep in mind that you won't be able to use the AP CCW and the EXP CCW at the same time, that requires 'CC with 2 weapons' skill. Also I thought you had to take Level 1 in a skill before you can take Level 2, which means you can't take HDL2 without taking HDL1, lastly keep in mind that your damage is based off your non-stellar PH (your pistol does more damage!)

Still nice concept with the Wire-Fu

Super Jump
Climbing Plus
EXP CCW
Natural Born Warrior (to cancel others martial arts!)
and either +1 PH (for better dodge/weapon damage) or HDL1

I think would serve you better and be legal

Darn I didn't mean to do L2.

I knew about the weapons. I was just thinking to be prepared. I had the NBW before but took it off. But it give you so much for so little!

Revised
Celestiald Guard Base 13pts

Combi-Rifle, Pistol, Knife
EXP CCW +1xp
Climbing Plus +3xp
Hyper Dynamics L2 +2xp
Super Jump +4xp
Natural Born Warrior +2xp

Total 12xp

How about you?

Currently I'm liking the toolbox approach because its saves so much cost and provides so much:

Aleph or Yu Jing

Celestial Guard or Thorakitai

Hacker (+2XP)
+1 WIP (+2XP)
-6 BTS (+5XP) which is AMAZING on Celestial Guard!
Engineer (+2XP)
EXPCCW (+1XP)

two models and .5 swc for the cost of one beat trooper and 0 swc (effectively 30+ pts savings!), unlocks REMs and can repair them, can hack, can be used for most objectives (hacker or engineer), you can slave him out with helper bots and cheap repeaters, defense against ADHL and GML lists and defensive hacking hero.

Also not sure if the WIP is maxxed at 14 or 15 if 14 then the +1 WIP is replaced with Minelayer for the CG

Are they limited on how many skills, equipment, and weapons they can take? The new Army Creator only allows 3 of each.

Spec Ops can only have 3 special skills, 3 pieces of equipment, and 3 weapons chosen from the list

so you could have doctor/engineer/Climbing Plus but couldn't add Mimetism to that for example as they are all skills

For some reason, the PanO Special Ops doesn't seem to have interesting equipment or skills. No MSV, TO Camo...

Does any spec-op have MSV or TO camo though? I mean, not even the Shas spec-op is able to take ordinary camo.

Nope, Mimetism is it for Camo and nobody gets any access to visors.

Probably for the best really.

I don't use them.
The options for PanO are less than stellar and I'd rather spend those 10 points up grading another fusilier to an HMG or somesuch than buying the "spec ops" fusilier base body and spending XP on it.

The YJ Celestial guard option just does not fit with the rest of my JSA, regardless of how legal it might be.

I don't use thorakitai for my Aleph, so it would be a lone thorakite and a rather obvious target.

Now i'm wondering, if you play a sectoral, are you obligated to taking in the base stat of a troop for that sectoral.

So lets say you are playing JSA. Do you have to take Kiesotsu Butai as the base for the Spec Op?

Or if you are playing Shasvastii, do you need to take Seed Soldier as the base?

To me it would make sense that you would have to take the troop for that sectoral. If you are playing general you should get any.

 CDK wrote:
Now i'm wondering, if you play a sectoral, are you obligated to taking in the base stat of a troop for that sectoral.

So lets say you are playing JSA. Do you have to take Kiesotsu Butai as the base for the Spec Op?

Or if you are playing Shasvastii, do you need to take Seed Soldier as the base?

To me it would make sense that you would have to take the troop for that sectoral. If you are playing general you should get any.

No, but if you'd pick, let's say, a Hafza in a Bahram sectorial, the Hafza Spec Ops wouldn't be able to link in your army.

 chromedog wrote:
I don't use them.
The options for PanO are less than stellar and I'd rather spend those 10 points up grading another fusilier to an HMG or somesuch than buying the "spec ops" fusilier base body and spending XP on it.

The YJ Celestial guard option just does not fit with the rest of my JSA, regardless of how legal it might be.

I don't use thorakitai for my Aleph, so it would be a lone thorakite and a rather obvious target.

In the ICS I can see not using a Spec-Ops as the Army Upgrades are Just that nice. But, in a Spec-Ops ITS where you can only spend the free XP on your Spec-Ops why wouldn't you take the base fusilier and get the HMG for no SWC or extra point cost. Even give the Fusilier a +1BS or make him harder to hit at range on top of it. /then you have enough points and SWC for a second HMG fusilier if you want, or something even better.

That was my thinking in my last game. I had a Zanshi anyway so I made him into a Spec Op.

Zanshi
Hyper D L1
Climbing Plus
NBW
Exp CCW
Grenades

Even though I didn't do much with him, it gave me the freedom to do something. I used his climb+ a little and then I tried using HD L1 but didn't help against the Autocannon. It was still better than nothing!

Noir wrote:
in a Spec-Ops ITS where you can only spend the free XP on your Spec-Ops why wouldn't you take the base fusilier and get the HMG for no SWC or extra point cost. Even give the Fusilier a +1BS or make him harder to hit at range on top of it. /then you have enough points and SWC for a second HMG fusilier if you want, or something even better.

Because I play Neoterra and ALREADY have the 5 allowed fusiliers for a kick-arse link team.
The rest of the points go on Auxilia and heavy hitters.

I've played with the PanO spec ops and to be honest, I'd rather use those 10 points to upgrade another model. Even with 12 Xp to boost him.
I also don't like to break the 10-model cap per group and running the spec op means I would usually be pushing into 12 model territory (and have two sub-par groups with not enough orders).
Spec op model gets used as the universal proxy model. Nothing more.

I'm still confused - if you're already running five Fusiliers why don't you make one of them the Spec Ops?

Because I don't WANT one, IJW.

Besides, my fusilier link is my sacrificial unit. I don't care if it gets mulched. It means they aren't shooting at the expensive stuff. No point adding an XP boosted model to the mulch.

I'd much rather lose the 60pts for 5 men than 60 from one.
Besides, the 5 man is often its own group.

I don't get it either.

It's FREE XP why not just use it? Even if they did get munched it's not a loss. But if he's the only one left he might be able to do something more than the others. Hell just give him a +1 BS and and Spitfire or HMG that doesn't cost points or SWC.

For 10pts, NO SWC, you can have a Spitfire, BS13, -3 SWC, and Engineer. And being in a Link will give him +1 Burst.

Even if he's a target it's NO big deal since you were planning on him dying anyway.

What part about "I don't WANT to use one" are you two not getting?

It's a personal choice thing. Like me choosing to play NCA because there are so many other panO units I also don't want in my army. I'm sure they all have their uses - but I don't want to bother with them.
I just don't WANT a spec op. If I want to play an upgradeable character, I'll play an rpg. If I want to play a miniatures game, I'll play that. I don't want the crossover.

Understood. Sorry I didn't get it.

I figure as long as I'm doing at ITS tournament that allows Spec Ops. I might as well have one too. Otherwise the other guy is going to have an advantage that I didn't take.

Y'know ...
Sometimes FREE stuff isn't wanted stuff. Sometimes it's just stuff that adds to the pile of crap you already have and don't use.

Like the FREE anime hooker mini that came with paradiso.
I gave it away. I didn't like it, I didn't need it and I certainly didn't WANT it in my collection. The guy who got it appreciated it, and wanted it but missed out on one.

If the only tournaments in my area become spec-ops tourneys, then I will simply stop playing in them. It's not the only game I play, and I have stopped playing tourneys before without my gaming suffering.

To be clear, I was talking about using one of your existing Fusilier models in your list as a Spec Ops by giving them some extra abilities, not adding a new model in any way!

Anyway, it's obviously your choice what you do.

It's still going to be a fusilier regardless.
I'm just not using the "free XP" that others would use.

Although like I said, I doubt I will play in any Spec ops tourney - so whether or not I will use one is more or less irrelevant.

I like the new tourney missions (prefer them to the overcomplicated morass that is paradiso, actually) and they will be a boon to tourneys - but I also like your YAMS system. It's simple, works, and even the noobs can pick it up.

Authorised bounty hunters and spec-ops are just an unneeded artifice in my eyes. The removal of a nice looking trophy and swapping with a rather poxy miniature has even started the local players to doubt their future inclusion in tourneys (we'd all rather a block of glass that we have no chance of winning to a miniature we either can't use or don't want. We either play sectorial armies OR aliens, neither of which can take him. I can't go back to playing Vanilla PanO - I have too many models that I would not be able to use, and I'd have to use models I don't like the look of.)

I can understand that, those glass trophies were lovely.

Okay well back to the thread about USING Spec Ops in ITS tournaments. If you don't like them. Fine done.

But to be back on track. I had a lot of fun using one the other day with a friend. He forgot to make one but I did. It didn't make much difference but it was fun being able to make him and use him. It was sort of like using an RPG character. I used his climb plus a little bit and then used his hyper dynamics. I think I'm going to tweek his skills though. I'm taking out Grenades and changing Climb Plus to Mimetisim. He really needed more defense. Bring his PH back down and give him Nanopulsar.

You can have a Willpower 15 hacker/doctor/engineer for PanO for 10 pts. I like that. :-D And will try that.

Actually the ones to use that will be Ariadna! Other than a Merc this is the only way to have a hacker. I think they are a great way to make up for slight weakness you may have.

THE MRRF sectorial gets a Nomad hacker, but yes, other than Valerya Gromoz this is the only way to get a hacker. My plan is to use a Line Kazak as base, upgrade WIP and BTS and make him a hacker. Anything on top of that is a bonus.

Line Kazak Base:
+1 WIP
-6 BTS
Hacking Device
ADHL/Grenades
A WIP 14 Hacker with -6 BTS for 9 points... yes please

In Vanilla Ariadna, not having a hacker has not been a problem outside of campaign games. So for a tournament I would give him Chain of Command and then use a Wallace or Van Zant list. All the fun, none of the draw backs!

I am tempted by No wound incap, WIP increase and Dr... would be a fun combo

Question: If you take the +1WIP upgrade for 2XP and then the +2 WIP upgrade for 5XP which of the following happens:
(a) You are WIP 16 (13+1+2) and it costs 7XP
(b) You are WIP 15 (13+2) and it costs 7XP
(c) You are WIP 16 (13+1+2) and it costs 5XP
(d) You are WIP 15 (13+2) and it costs 5XP

I see it as being (b) but my army builder (AI by Aleph) sees it as being (c)