Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hi all,

This Sunday, I'll be going up against a 1500 point Tyranid army with my Dark Eldar. Last weekend, he wiped the floor with me, and it was less than stellar, so I've re-worked my list and would like some advice on it. I understand that there will be suggestions of models I don't have, so I'd like to put some restrictions on that.

What I have in terms of models: Warriors x40, Wyches x30, Raider x2, Venom x2, Ravager x1, Talos x1, Ravager x1, Jetbikes x9, Scourges x10

So now, on with the list:

HQ:

Haemunculus Ancient
Liquifier
Shattershard
105 points

Haemunculus
Liquifier
Casket of Flensing
70 points

Elite:

Trueborn x3
Splinter Cannon x2
Splinter Rifle
141 points

Venom
Splinter Cannon
Chain Snares
Envenomed Blades
Nightshield
85 points

Trueborn x3
Splinter Cannon x2
Splinter Rifle
141 points

Venom
Splinter Cannon
Chain Snares
Envenomed Blades
Nightshield
85 points

Troops:

Warriors x9
81 points

Raider
Disintegrator
Envenomed Blades
Flickerfield
Nightshield
Splinter Racks
Torment Grenade Launcher
100 points

Warriors x9
81 points

Raider
Disintegrator
Envenomed Blades
Flickerfield
Nightshield
Splinter Racks
Torment Grenade Launcher
100 points

Fast Attack:

Reaver Jetbikes x9
Cluster Caltrops x3
258 points

Heavy Support:

Ravager
Disintegrator x3
Flickerfield
Nightshield
Torment Grenade Launchers
130 points

Razorwing Jetfighter
Splinter Cannon
Disintegrator x2
Monoscythe Missile x2
Shatterfield Missile x2
Flickerfield
Nightshield
185 points

Talos Pain Engine
Twin-Linked Splinter Cannon
Twin-Linked Liquifier
105 points

Total: 1497 points

The two haemis will go with the Warriors, giving them FnP and will give them good liquefier support when the inevitable Tyranid assault happens, and thin them out before they even get to assault. The Casket and Shattershard will also be used to this end. The Talos will be doing essentially the same thing, and will give the Tyranid something else to focus on while my Raiders make it to safety. Trueborn in the Venoms will be doing what they do best, and that is spraying splinter fire into the mass of Tyranid. I set them up with chain snares so I can do a little extra damage in the movement phase if they're close enough and I have the room on the other side. However, they will largely be staying at a distance.

Ravager will be hanging back as much as it can laying down its disintegrator fire, Jetfighter will be happy that there is no Skyfire, but Flickerfield and Nightshield just in case they get lucky on 6s. Flickerfields are there for the raiders and ravager simply because it's a 5+ invuln, where their jink is a cover save, so they can still get their 5+ even in assault.

All in all, I've outfitted the transports in the event of Tyranids in assault range, so that's why they're so expensive. Any advice on adjustments with what I have, very very much welcome.

Also, a question about the Envenomed Blades:

Tyranid have a lot of things where they re-roll 1s while assaulting. Do the Envenomed Blades work on that initial roll of a 1, or do they only work on the re-roll, if the re-roll is also a 1? If it's the latter, I may remove them entirely.

Thanks!

I'll start with saying: You sure overdress your units like a mad man! And it's been a while since I've fought nids, but I'll give this a try!

I can tell you're terrified by their assaults! But... if you drop all the unnecessary upgrades, you can probably buy another venom or something to shoot at them, which would be more useful than...

-Haemy ancient! Why? What does the increase in stat do?? Why would you need him at all? Drop him back to haemy and save yourself some points.
-Arcane wargears! Casket is too random, although still could be a pretty good weapon if your dice are good. Shattershard, on the other hand, against the high T units that nids have, it's useless, they have to roll an 1 to be RFP, on the T3 hordes, well, the chance is the same for liquifier gun, and it's not like they're running with TEQ saves, you have a good chance of denying them their saves with the liquifier gun you've already bought.
-Vehicles upgrades! Chain snares?? Envenomed blades?? NIGHTSHIELD??? TGL!???!! I'll start with chain snares, you have a 6" movement to run over them with if you want the unit on board to be able to fire at their BS, and just like envenomed blades, you might as well call it a loss when they managed to assault them than to give them those "upgrades" that aren't gonna even be able to hurt them significantly enough. Nightshield, we outshoot them, how many nids can outshoot us? I think they have like 2 weapons or 3 that actually have the range matching ours, but they're far and few between. TGL... Aren't nids fearless? Or are you hoping for that denial of assault effect? They're on Ld 9 even with that TGL debuff... It's very hard to fail when 2D6's average is a little over 7....
-Splinter cannon on razorwing? You fire 4 weapons per turn as a flyer(thanks GW), you'd at best get to fire it once per game, and you're paying that much points for it? They aren't absolutely useless, granted, but their usefulness has drastically decreased since 6th ed.

There we go, saved you.... About 150 points, enough to buy an unit of scourges w/ upgrades which would arguably do more help than all those you've wasted points on.

On the envenomed blades question, I'd say only the final result counts.

Personally, I wouldn't even throw haemies with the warriors, I'd just let them die if they get assaulted, those FNP still aren't gonna save you from those assault-oriented nids who would just tear them a new one anyway. Beside, template is about... 8" I believe? Even though you'd want to be at 12" for your splinter rifles, 12" and 8" really aren't that much different, I'd still rather stay at 12" against those scary nids assaults. I actually had good result with wyches on genestealers back in 5th ed, not only do we strike first, but they get tied down by us, and since nids don't benefit from that overwatch buff this ed, you could well consider throwing some wyches in to tie something down, quite literally with shardnet(s).

P.S. I believe their FMC have no problem taking down our paper planes, they do have some decent flyer defence, I'd say.

I see where you're coming from on the over-dressing, but since I literally don't have any extra models to field outside of Scourges and extra Warriors and Wyches, I tried to use the points as best I could.

And yes, I am terrified of their assaults, I pretty much got steamrolled into oblivion last time I played against them! With that in mind, I tried to help negate that, but I do see that I could better spend the points on more troops or a unit of Scourges. I also see what you mean about the chain snares - I didn't think about wanting my Trueborn to fire at full ballistic skill, so I'll drop those as well. And yeah, I was banking on the -1 leadership check to keep them from assaulting - it's worked against Assault marines, so I figured why not give it a shot against Tyranid. I see what you mean about everything else, though.

The guy I'm playing doesn't have any FMC - so that'll be a big advantage for me.

For my Venom-bound Trueborn, do you think it would be a better idea to give the single model with a Splinter Rifle a Shardcarbine instead? I could stay out of 12" and still be able to get 3 poison shots off with a single carbine.

Would you recommend just reducing down to one Haemonculus? Or picking a different HQ altogether?

Thanks for the advice, I really want to have a better chance against this guy than I did last week.

With the changes so far, I've removed all the upgrades and added in 6 Scourge with two Splinter Cannons, my points are at 1499 O_o

If you are looking for a substitute for the haemy try a succubus with agoniser she will take down any mc with less then a 2+ that most nids seem to be lacking

Shardcarbines on the trueborns, I'd say why not, providing you can find the spare points, but remember against fleet assault, that 18" could still be a dangerous place to be.

For the HQ, Duke Sliscus could be fun with his splinter upgrade, either throw him in the gunboat(mass of fire, closer to the front) or the trueborns(less number of shot, better range) and take advantage of the 3+ boost. Blaster archon is cheap and effective, throw him in a venom or something and fire away. As most of our HQs are assault machine, and you seem to have no intention of going into assault with the nids, I'd say keep them cheap if possible, with the obvious exception being Duke who gives that splinter bonus, but still, you're kinda wasting his CC potential as well.

As for the scourges, remember the SC upgrade, you're paying for 1 more shot and 18" further shooting for the SC carrier, as you'd likely keep the unit mobile, you're using the assault profile rather than the heavy. Try juggling your points around and see if you can field 2 units of 5 scourges w/ no upgrade, may be? Or even, just more scourges! If not possible though, I guess 6 with SCs couldn't hurt.

On the topic of avoiding assault on your vehicles, remember you can always flat out over them to the other side of the table, giving up some offensive, if your opponent doesn't have a good plan to counter that, you can always play Benny Hill theme in the background as the nids desperately chase your crafts.

EDIT: The succubus suggestion is also great, as I, as mentioned earlier, don't think we're absolutely hopeless in assault against the nids.

Hrm.. I like the idea of the Duke, since that's the major part of my army. Would he also give the Venom the 3+ poison, or just the Trueborn inside? I'm guessing just the Trueborn, but that's still a lot of shots.

So I replaced the Haemies with the Duke, going to put him in one of the Venoms, increased my Warrior count to 10 per boat, removed the Nightshield from the Jetfighter, and removed the SCs from the Scourges... I think I can make this work.

I agree that the Succubus would be a good choice as well, however, as you observed, I have no intention in getting into CC with these things if I can help it.

All changes said and done, I'm at 1507 points... removing a Scourge would put me down to 1485, and I could re-take the Nightshield. I'm pretty sure if I removed the Talos, I could squeeze in another squad of 5 Scourges... which, I think would be better in the long run, since they're just more maneuverable.

Thanks for the advice - I'm still quite new to the game, so I don't really think everything through as well as I could yet.

I think hexrifles on the haemy can be useful against focusing down mc's I have used them in the past to annoy dreadkinghts and even bring a few down I don't see why they wouldn't work well vs nid mc's

We've all been there. I've made plenty of bad decisions myself, and am still making them, DE isn't an easy army to play anyway. This one time though, I ran my HQ + wych unit raider infront of my friend's dread, thinking to HWG it to oblivion, then I looked at my list and went "Nope, didn't bring HWG, did I? Hmmm..." theeeeen that unit went off the table pretty quickly... Or how this one time when my blasterborn venom got taken down and I chose to disembark them in front of it, standing closer to the assault marines instead of hiding them so to make the assault harder... Yeah, good time!

Anyway! Correct, Duke only buffs the warriors/trueborns he is with, not the transport.

As for dropping the Talos, sure, you get more shootings out of it and it's not like the assault from a single Talos would change much.

One day though, you really should give assault on nids a try, it's good fun! They don't have the overwatch that we fear, and you can always fire at the hordes to weaken them. The good thing about having a counter-assault unit or two is that it's better to have them in combat with the nids than your shooty, even if they fail to kill, they can still tie them down for a good turn or 2. Tie them up and zoom your important units away to safety.

 A GumyBear wrote:
I think hexrifles on the haemy can be useful against focusing down mc's I have used them in the past to annoy dreadkinghts and even bring a few down I don't see why they wouldn't work well vs nid mc's

The guy I'm playing against doesn't have any MCs, so I'll be good with that, but that's something I'll keep in mind - there are other Tyranid players at the shop I go to, and they use MCs.

I've made those mistakes before, forgetting to give my Wyches haywire grenades, and even forgetting to give my Blasterborn blasters lol. I've also done really stupid stuff like run a Raider full of Wyches and Lelith straight up, got about 25" total moving with the Aether Sails, aaaaaaaaaand I was out in the open. *****. Raider blew up, I lost everyone but Lelith. *head-desk*

I'll definitely try out assaulting Tyranid sometime... though right now, I'm focusing on staying away from them. I can definitely see how they could be used as a tarpit (I used them that way against a DA guy who had a few Dev squads w/ LC and missile launchers, worked pretty well.)

Dropped the Talos, now have two squads of 5 Scourges with Shardcarbines This will definitely be an interesting fight for me.

Thanks a lot!

To be fair mate, those flickerfields are useless in 6th edition, you get a 5+ cover save for moving, and a Dark Eldar unit that isn't moving is a dead Dark Eldar unit.. Ravagers can do everything a Razorwing can do, but better (except it isn't a flyer, but you're not searching for anti-flyer stuff against Tyranids, and it's not going to get shot much anyway), you might want to put some Wracks in there as well, they're tough as hell and will take a long time for Tyranids to get through, plus you can give them those liquifier guns you love so much Aside from this, Grotesques and Urien Rakarth work very well, give them liquifier guns, FnP, Furious Charge, making them S7 on the charge, so you're instant deathing anything T3 which is nice, just my opinions from a fairly new DE player that has been lectured by my friend xD

P.S. Sorry for being a bit late, giving you a few tips for alter on c;