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I hate to start a versus thread, but having finished the Forerunner Saga, I can't help but wonder whether or not even the Eldar at the height of their power could defeat the Forerunners at the height of their power as well.

The two seem evenly matched, Hard Light against Wraithbone, Slipspace mastery against the Webway, AI support against psionics and so on.

Clearly, Master Chief would appear and defeat them both.

 LordofHats wrote:
Clearly, Master Chief would appear and defeat them both.

Master Chief is the Reclaimer among the Reclaimers (Humanity). If he succeeds in reclaiming the Forerunners' legacy for Humanity, then by default, the Halo Humans would be on the same level as the Forerunners (if not more so given the Flood and the Precursor's belief in Humanity's superiority even over the Forerunners).

So the question now is: the Forerunners/the Reclaimers (fully-realized) vs. the Eldar.

None of them win, they will all bur for their heresy!

 Trondheim wrote:
None of them win, they will all bur for their heresy!

If you have nothing to contribute, get out.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Trondheim wrote:
None of them win, they will all bur for their heresy!

If you have nothing to contribute, get out.

I can tell this is going to be a fun thread.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Trondheim wrote:
None of them win, they will all bur for their heresy!

If you have nothing to contribute, get out.

I can tell this is going to be a fun thread.

I could tell at this part:

The Forerunners vs. the Eldar
I hate to start a versus thread, but

As for trying to be on topic it'd be the Eldar and it's a simple explanation as to why I think so. The Eldar had seers and could predict the future, I'm assuming the Forerunners didn't have this if they did that throws this all out. Considering the destructive power of both of them every engagement would be decided by one quick well aimed ambush of sorts. It just depends on who hits first and as long as they don't get hit back it won't likely become a draw.

Actually, the Forerunner AIs had prognostication abilities as well, probably by means of probability calculation, as evidenced by Offensive Bias predicting Mendicant Bias' every move at the Battle of the Maginot Line. Yes, its not completely infallible, but then again, neither is foresight. As a Thousand Sons' Corvidae once said "Precognition is never perfect."

EDIT: In line combat, I think the Forerunners would have the advantage due to superior durability; they have shields against Eldar Holo-Fields, and could probably initiate a micro-slipspace jump to dodge incoming ordnance. I also wouldn't put it past Forerunner sensors to see though said Holo-Fields. Firepower-wise, they should be more or less equal, but the Eldar probably have the speed advantage in terms of maneuvering.

Considering the humans at their height managed to give the Forerunners a run for their money I'd say the Eldar would probably swing it...
Also if you hate to make a versus thread why make it?

 purplefood wrote:
Considering the humans at their height managed to give the Forerunners a run for their money I'd say the Eldar would probably swing it...
Also if you hate to make a versus thread why make it?

Only because Human tech at the time was on-par with the Forerunners, and only the latter's relatively superior slipspace and AI technology allowed them to win, as well as the Humans' exhaustion after defeating the Flood.

And as I said in the OP, I couldn't help but wonder.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
In line combat, I think the Forerunners would have the advantage due to superior durability; they have shields against Eldar Holo-Fields, and could probably initiate a micro-slipspace jump to dodge incoming ordnance. I also wouldn't put it past Forerunner sensors to see though said Holo-Fields. Firepower-wise, they should be more or less equal, but the Eldar probably have the speed advantage in terms of maneuvering.

Warp spiders can and the Eldar do have shields in some places.

I was thinking more along the line of both can detonate stars so yeh, you see it coming and you get out of the way or you don't and you lose. Current Eldar tech is like IoM tech, it's dated and more primitive. I really think the two are on even footing now so it'd just come down to neither fighting the other since they'd both realise the assured mutual destruction threat that made the cold war so fun.

This isn't as easy as the Marines vs SPARTAN threads and there can't always be a clear winner.

Assuming not just Promethean Knights but all Prometheans have slipspace translocators, Warp Spiders would be virtually outnumbered by teleportation-capable Prometheans.

Are we talking about the Eldar Pre-fall? or As they are now?

I think Pre-fall Eldar would have the advantage, and the Forerunners would be tied with current-era Eldar.

Now, the only knowledge I know about he Forerunners is from Halo 4, so I could be a bit lacking in the knowledge department there.

Necrons beat both

 Sasori wrote:
Are we talking about the Eldar Pre-fall? or As they are now?

I think Pre-fall Eldar would have the advantage, and the Forerunners would be tied with current-era Eldar.

Now, the only knowledge I know about he Forerunners is from Halo 4, so I could be a bit lacking in the knowledge department there.

Pre-Fall. And even then I believe they're even, going by the Forerunner Saga novels. But if the Forerunners fire Halo, its the end for the Eldar. Psionics seem to function like Precursor neural physics, and the Webway's components/Wraithbone are analogous to Precursor unbending filaments. Halo would blow them apart without mercy. If they're in the Warp, they might survive, but they'd be trapped when the gates across the galaxy are destroyed, and that's assuming the stress of the gates' destruction doesn't cause the Webway to collapse, or the Warp doesn't just implode with the death of all sapient beings across the galaxy.

Nightbringer goes "Boo!".

Obviously, the Imperium would win.

Although I suppose it's so obvious I shouldn't even have to say it.

 Melissia wrote:
Obviously, the Imperium would win.

Although I suppose it's so obvious I shouldn't even have to say it.

Don't derail the thread. As I've said before, if you don't have anything to contribute, get out.

 Sasori wrote:
Are we talking about the Eldar Pre-fall? or As they are now?

Pre-fall, it's not even a contest. The only thing capable of bringing the Eldar down was themselves


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
get out.

No.

 Melissia wrote:

 Sasori wrote:
Are we talking about the Eldar Pre-fall? or As they are now?

Pre-fall, it's not even a contest. The only thing capable of bringing the Eldar down was themselves

I disagree. The Halo Array would fire and kill every sapient being in the galaxy, and blow apart every Eldar, no, every psychic construct in normal space or with a connection to normal space. Of course, that would be the equivalent of turning the table over and would only happen if the Forerunners didn't have the patience to stand and fight.

Suicide doesn't make for a good victory when the opponent can just hide in the webway and survive your suicide attempt. Even having entire worlds in the webway.

So Eldar pick a small suicide group to activate the rings. A distraction force to keep everyone preoccupied then everyone else hops into the webway and just waits for a bit.

And remember, the pre fall eldar weren't dealing with a Warp anywhere near as crazy as it is now, combined with a much larger population and better tech - their psychic abilities would be at least an order of magnitude beyond what they are capable of currently.


- that said, I doubt there would be many Eldar actually taking to the front lines. They had armies of robots - ala wraithguard but without the souls - to do their fighting for them

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Actually, the Forerunner AIs had prognostication abilities as well, probably by means of probability calculation, as evidenced by Offensive Bias predicting Mendicant Bias' every move at the Battle of the Maginot Line. Yes, its not completely infallible, but then again, neither is foresight. As a Thousand Sons' Corvidae once said "Precognition is never perfect."

Offensive Bias was created specifically to counter Mendicant Bias, which the Forerunners themselves had created.

I'm really unsure who would win, because both sides have massively different forms of technology, combat and ways of life. Also, as others have pointed out, Halo is effectively useless in this situation.

 LordofHats wrote:
Clearly, Master Chief would appear and defeat them both.

best answer is best!

I haven't finished Silentium, so I don't want to read the thread too much. I think it would probably be a pretty even match, as they appear to both be very powerful elder races; the Eldar do have psychic power on their side though; albeit perhaps offset by the Forerunners advanced AI.

 Melissia wrote:
Suicide doesn't make for a good victory when the opponent can just hide in the webway and survive your suicide attempt. Even having entire worlds in the webway.

The Halo would shatter the Webway like glass, due to the semi-sapient nature of the Webway itself. The Webway gates would serve as terminals through which the Halo effect would surge into the Webway, destroying the Webway as it passes through.

 blood reaper wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Actually, the Forerunner AIs had prognostication abilities as well, probably by means of probability calculation, as evidenced by Offensive Bias predicting Mendicant Bias' every move at the Battle of the Maginot Line. Yes, its not completely infallible, but then again, neither is foresight. As a Thousand Sons' Corvidae once said "Precognition is never perfect."

Offensive Bias was created specifically to counter Mendicant Bias, which the Forerunners themselves had created.

And what's stopping them from making an AI specifically to counter the Eldar?

...Halo is effectively useless in this situation.

I assure you that it is not. Psionics are very similar to Precursor neural physics, and as such are extremely vulnerable to the Halo.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
The Halo would shatter the Webway

No.

 Melissia wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
The Halo would shatter the Webway

No.

Yes.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
The Halo would shatter the Webway

No.

Yes.

Making up "facts" out of whole cloth doesn't make for a good discussion, even in some lame versus thread.

The webway is only accessible through webway portals, and essentially you have to have a psychic with you to get into the webway to begin with.

Plus, given the nature of the webway itself, it's possible that the eldar could actively block the conduits that halo breach anyway.

Admiral Valerian wrote:The Halo would shatter the Webway like glass, due to the semi-sapient nature of the Webway itself. The Webway gates would serve as terminals through which the Halo effect would surge into the Webway, destroying the Webway as it passes through..

Halo works by releasing a wave of radiation that targets and destroys the bodies nervous system. The Webway does not possess said nervous system.