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I was mad at a watcher in one of my games. He told the Eldar to spin the transport so its butt was facing me and then dump the Fire dragons b/c that would put them in 2d6 melta pen range of my Bastion.

What do you do about that? Very Nearly cost me the game. He didn't see that move. They easily killed the bastion where as out of 2d6 pen it would have been very unlikely.

Personally, as long as the watcher isn't playing the person's army for them, (and if they are, they've usually been doing it the whole game to coach them so they're better), I can't make myself care. It usually makes the games closer, and better.

I find it funny there are two threads titled "Watchers" next to each other but they are about two completely different things.

I don't mind people watching me play, I don't even mind them making comments with advice and things. It makes me feel better when I beat an enemy who had TWO minds working against me. It helps to get to know people too. But yeah, at a certain point if the watcher starts to pretty much tell the other guy what to do every single move then I draw the line. I'll get to playing you in a minute XD

Only time I really hate people outside the game commenting is when there is a catastrophic dice failure and then they offer advice after the fact. Like bringing in a flyer that gets intercepted and falls ontop of your own unit, killing half the squad and they run off the board. "Oh, should have brought in further away." I hate hind sight so bad.

I take it back. There was one other type of watcher I can't stand. The fluff police. I'm not sure why, but so many times I've played Tau with CSM allies and someone comes up to me, looks at my models and starts asking me why they are teamed up or telling me they would never team up.

I really dislike those kind of people. If they suggest something to me and I do it, even if I was thinking of doing it, I feel they cheated me out of a victory of my own doing.

On the flip side, I hate it when an opponent is getting help because after they get help, it's no longer them playing.

Watchers are annoying when it slows the game down because the other person is always asking for advice...

I find it depends, if the watcher is just helping with the rules and giving both sides advice, also looking up the rules and generally being helpful it is very cool. but some are just annoying and want to see you loss.

I like to call them "Theoryhammers"
They stand around the table and tell your opponenet how to win the game and then when you ask them to stop helping your opponent they get mad and storm off grumbling stuff under thier breath.
These are also the guys that LOVE to disect a persons army but NEVER bring their boys out to play...they love to bask in the "If I was playing your army I would..." But they never seem to put up OR shut up!!

It's a plastic toy soldier game. So what if you lost it's not the end of the world.

How about if someone told you something that you missed and then you end up winning the game? How would you react then?

Just sound a bit to whiney for a toy soldier game. In sport games the crowd is always yelling at the players in what to do. I see it no differently.,

In a sports game, telling the batter to choke up on the bat doesnt mean hes gonna do it...listen to advise from a clown in the stands? but the dude on the other side of the table might not have seen the move the watcher just pointed out and that changes the game...advise from a drunken fan on how to dunk the ball by no means equates...your point holds no validity.

FarseerAndyMan wrote:
In a sports game, telling the batter to choke up on the bat doesnt mean hes gonna do it...listen to advise from a clown in the stands? but the dude on the other side of the table might not have seen the move the watcher just pointed out and that changes the game...advise from a drunken fan on how to dunk the ball by no means equates...your point holds no validity.

Who says professional sports. You always have friends, parents telling their friends, kids etc what to do while they are playing. So how is this any different?

I can understand it can be upsetting to loose a game, but come on. It's a toy soldier game. If you loose so what? Does a person really need to win? Again, lets turn it around. What if someone told the OP some advice and he won the game. Then what?

Im sad to say i usually end up as a watcher. Ill watch a game and usually talk about it with other watchers, but i rarely tell people what to do. If i do, its because im talking about it with another watcher and player over-hears me and asks about the tactic.

I also have an annoying habbit of always listning, so in a store i can generally get the gist of most convosations going on at one time. If i hear something amiss i find it hard to not go over there and tell them hows its played. For example people saying swarmlord is EW when he isn't *he didnt use endureance* or when people pick and choose powers from codex and book. Im not sure how people take it when i come over to a table to say that the tau hammerhead gets a 4+ cover save when the players have been playing without for the whole game, but thats how the game is played, should i say it even if it isnt my buissiness?

A good example is a fantasy game i was watching when some dark elf knights where charged by TK chariots. The TK said that the 1+ save is reduced to 4+, i said it was only reduced to a 2+, he gave me evils and accepted it. Then because the TK won combat by some miraculos rolling they won with CR3. They rolled an eight and he said they would flee, he rolled and chased them down. But when i caught a glimpse of the DE army list he had crown of command that he forgot, so i said they where stubborn and made the leadership test. The TK raged at me for backseat gaming. I left, but told my friend to keep an eye on the game. the Dark elf was new.

I shouldn't have judged so quickly. To the OP, was this a tourney, or a friendly game? Was it for fun or competitive? If fun, I think you got your knickers in a bunch, if competitive game, then I can understand why you would be upset.

I hate watchers who try to be rules lawyers and are wrong or watchers who check out models and pick them up to admire them. I usually watch a game only if I'm asked for help, or I think The models are done well.

In a tournament, we had this happen twice during the last three events. The official way to treat this is that the "active watcher" is asked to leave the tournament room immediately for the rest of the day. If part in the tournament himself, he gets a hefty amount of penalty points depending on how much he helped.

It is a league so there is a considerable prize at the end is why it annoys me -- if it was only a friend game no big deal.

They guy giving advice was the league organizer so I couldn't go to anyone.

I hate hearing that above posters," It's only a game?" So is Chess wonder what happens if a master is playing for prize and another master gives him advice? You know how much money I have spent on this," Toy soldier game" as you put it? Davon.

I don't want someone telling me how to win. I want to do it on my own or I buy a hidden ear piece and get my friends to help or according to you just have them sit there over the table and counsel me. My firends are very good players and we would hardly miss anything. That doesn't seem right. It is a challenge 1 on 1.

I don't mind when it rules that the watchers bring up but strategic advice isn't cool.

Am I not allowed to take my hobby seriously?

Yes you can take the hobby serious, but please read your original post. You didn't explain the conditions as to what was being played. It almost sounded like you were being whiney, so hence why I didn't think you were really serious there.

Remember we are all not mind readers, and can't know what you mean when you don't explain all the details.

Now knowing the conditions, I will agree with you, especially when the T,O. was getting involved.

Sorry if it came out if I was attacking you. It was not my intent.

Don't usually mind, but when I'm watching, I try not to step in when I hear them both come to the wrong conclusion on a rule and have it be a significant game changer.

I try to wait until after the game and explain it, but that's kinda a thing for me. >__> I try not to be rude.

@ TheKbob That is what I do unless it is a glaring rules mistake in which me the TO has to intervene (which isn't very often, I like to keep my nose out).

I know it is a game, but if you are watching try to not interfere. People are trying to gain enjoyment out of the game, and I can see where giving out advice like in the OP would give 1 side an unfair competitive advantage. That could definitely ruin the game for someone. I mean there is always after the game.

If someone tried to give me strategic advice during a game I would just make it clear, politely, that I was playing for myself and I did not need any help. I think all of my regular opponents would have much the same reaction.

That said, if I hear a rules misinterpretation drift over from another table, I will try to set them straight. I still make sure to ask if they mind before I give input though.

I actually enjoy advise from fellow players. Especially if they are veterans. It's how I learn. I will say that when I do make a mistake or do something wrong and they point it out to me that I don't correct it in that instants. I remember what they told me for next time but if I make a mistake and I wouldn't have caught it without them saying anything then it would be unfair for me to change it unless its a friendly game.

I don't mind if my opponents get advise either. It helps me learn their armies too so its win win as far as I'm concerned.