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Hi,

Im planning to play some 1850 pts games in a small tournament, and I need a Little help with the list. Im playing Space Marines, my own chapter... Here is the list so far:


HQ
?

TROOP
10 TAC: Plasmagun, Missile L: 180

10 TAC: meltagun, multi-melta: 175

5 Scouts:Snipers, camo cloak:90

1 Razorback: TL Lascanon, dozerblade, HK missile: 90

FAST
1 Storm Talon: Skyhammer missiles: 125

1 Storm Talon: Skyhammer missiles: 125

ELITE:
5 Terminators: th/ss :200
1 transport: Land Raider Redeemer, multi melta, HK missile: 250

HEAVY:
1 Predator: Las sponsons, HK missile:130

1 Predator: Las sponsons, HK missile:130

1 Thunderfire Canon:100


Thats about 1605 points and I still need a HQ. So if you Guys could come with some advise that would be great

best regards

Kris

Leave the HK missiles. 10 points and a decent chance that you'll miss and those points are wasted. If you need a point filler, take one but I wouldn't use so many.

After that you should have 285p left. If it's your own chapter, you will propably not use any named characters. That will leave you with only few choices.

Captain: I would propably get this one. Maybe put him in Terminator armour and stick with other terminators, because CC is the thing this guy does best. Storm Bolter & Lightning Claw combo is useful and has still reasonable price.

Other choice is Librarian. You should keep him near your marines and give them some nice cover save buff. And he's very cheap.

And who were you planning to put on that Razor? It has capacity of only 6, so were you planning to Combat squad tacticals, or put scouts there? On both: don't. Scouts (sniper) are supposed to keep away from enemy, and tacticals are better united so you should take another RB for them.

If you still have points (and you do) consider a bike squad with MM Attack Bike, or a Dreadnougth.

Thanks for the comment.

Im thinking Captain too. I´ll Loose the HK missile on the Land Raider, but keep them on the rest. I would get the Captain + 5 combat squaded TAC in Razorback. I still have 127 point left with this list:

HQ
1 Captain: stormbolter, powerfist: 128

TROOP
10 TAC: Plasmagun, Missile L: 180

10 TAC: meltagun, multi-melta: 175

5 Scouts:Snipers, camo cloak:90

1 Razorback: TL Lascanon, dozerblade, HK missile: 90

FAST
1 Storm Talon: Skyhammer missiles: 125

1 Storm Talon: Skyhammer missiles: 125

ELITE:
5 Terminators: th/ss :200
1 transport: Land Raider Redeemer, multi melta, 240

HEAVY:
1 Predator: Las sponsons, HK missile:130

1 Predator: Las sponsons, HK missile:130

1 Thunderfire Canon:100

Maybe a Rifle Dread? or another Scout squad? Im a Little low on Troops in 1850 pts game.

Kris

Agreed, one more scoring unit would be useful.
One good option would be another scout unit, but this time maybe give them bolters? Then you could Inflintrate and run at the nearest objective and hold it until the tough guys arrive.

After that you would still have some points. Maybe give another RB for the rest of your Combat Squaded Tacticals?

Captain is the worst HQ open to Space Marines. On a bike he is passable but needs PF and LC. Libby would suit your list better.

You've too many troops for my liking. Tac squads are just terrible in this codex and 6th ruined scouts so you can't afford too many troops as you'll just get tabled every game.

Tac squads need matched combi-weapon to the special weapon and with the rest of the mech they need Rhinos or at least an Aegis.

If you're taking HKMs you should be spamming them. It is either loads for an alpha strike or leave them at home.

Your Fast Attack is good.

Solo Landraiders are a very bad idea. They need to be taken in pairs or not at all. EVERYONE can deal with a Landraider, many people will struggle to deal with 2.

Predators are good (best config is what youve got except for HKM which needs to follow advice above) TFC not so much.

For his points, a SM Captain is pretty useful. With a PF he gives the squad nice AT-capacity in CC and WS6 is something you should never laugh at. Also, 4+ Inv is always useful.

And single LRs aren't that bad. Keep it away from enemy meltas and it shouldn't be in immediate danger.

The Captain is not a great unit for the SMs. If you tool him for CC you need him in a unit that wants to be in CC. Which is the TH/SS terminators who don't need him and who would do more damage with an attached Chaplain ir Libby for the buff. Or you equip him for ranged warfare when he just becomes a mega expensive tac marine sergeant. Neither is an efficient use of points. On a bike to get a bike command squad and or bike troops is the only good use of his points.

As stated everyone can deal with 1 Landraider and it needs yo close with the enemy to do its job. So you have a massive threat near the enemy and only one to deal with. Thus makes it very easy for your opponent. Target priority is dine for him and he just needs his melta in one place. Result against a good player is Landraider dies on the halfway point. Then the Terminators are stranded...

Agree about the captain, a bit iffy about the single land raider but I dont think its terrible to have just 1 when there's a few other vehicles on the field. I would loose the captain though, for taking just one HQ I would say the librarian consistently performs the best. The powers he gives are versatile and the instant death from his force-weapon is priceless. Going with TH/SS terminators I don't think you need another fist in there for vehicles, but for anything above toughness 4 the force weapon will be great.

Thanks for the comments, very usefull..!

Im thinking that the Libby will suit better than Cap, but I would run him with a TAC squad and not the Terminators.

Regarding the Land Raider I will only use 1, and yes people can handle that, but its not all about winning. And 1 would do it for me.
Im still thinking about the Thunderfire Canon... Should i swap it for something else? I think it would do great against Horde, and it could boltser a ruin so my scouts could get a better cover save.

So maybe this:

HQ
1 Librarian: plasmapistol, Gate of Infinity, Null Zone:115
TROOP
10 TAC: Plasmagun, Missile L,plasma pistol: 195

10 TAC: meltagun, multi-melta, combi-melta: 185

5 Scouts:Snipers, camo cloak:90

1 Razorback: TL Lascanon, dozerblade, HK missile: 90

FAST
1 Storm Talon: Skyhammer missiles: 125

1 Storm Talon: Skyhammer missiles: 125

ELITE:
5 Terminators: th/ss :200
1 transport: Land Raider Redeemer, multi melta, 240

HEAVY:
1 Predator: Las sponsons, HK missile:130

1 Predator: Las sponsons, HK missile:130

1 Thunderfire Canon:100


Thats 1725, so I still have 125 points... Could be regular scouts w. heavy bolter or another Storm Talon, Dread? maybe a 5man TAC ?


Kris

IMO tac squads aren't that useful with only 5 guys. While combat squaded, they will at least have some special weapons, but 5 regular bolters seem to be a waste of points.

And the thing that disturbs me in Libby, is that he has only 2 wounds and no Inv-save (unlike Cpt. w/ free Iron Halo) so he isn't at his best in CC. But still, I have seen a Libby beat up Mephiston or Daemon Prince in HtH, and with tacticals he is propably good choice.

I would propably leave the Thunderfire Cannon, and I still think that those other tacticals could use transport... But other than that, you could possibly take a scout squad w/ bolters and heavy bolter and put them in LSS?

hmm.. I know Libbi is weak in CC, so I try to keep him with a TAC and out of range. GOI should help with that.

I know I lack transport, but I rarely use them, and when I do they just stand around doing nothing, maybe im playing them wrong.
But Ill throw in a Scout squad w. HB. and if I leave the HK missiles, I still have 70 points to use. Maybe a landspeeder? or another Razorback?

Aegis def line and quad gun.

Libby isn't weak in CC just don't get him into Challenges with serious combat characters. He should be with the Terminators to buff them with Nullzone.

I really dont understand your reasoning for HK missiles. You have put 30 points worth of single shot missile launchers on tanks which have been upgraded to have lascannons. It seems a waste to have a HK missile when your TLLC on the RB or the auto/las on the pred has a reasonably good chance of blowing up that tank. Not only that, but it seems that, generally speaking, the meta is shifting away from tanks. I think those 30 points can be saved.

Also, aegis lines with quad guns are a staple choice for more armies. Meaning you're av11 ST isn't going to last long. While, if they both come on at the same time, one will survive and do some damage, they will eventually die - and that's almost garunteed against a quad gun. If you picked up a quad gun and an aegis, you could safely drop the two STs - saving you a huge 150 points. Also, it will give your sit back and shoot tactical squads some good cover.

I noticed earlier in the discussion that you were unsure about a HQ. While i have no issues with a libby, the GoI can be very helpful to get to an objective late game, have you considered a chaplain? re-rolls on 5 THSS termies is devastating...

Just my 2 cents...

Looks better, but I would still loose the plasma pistol on the librarian and a HK to put him in terminator armour and run him with the terminators. That gives a solution to him lacking an inv (albeit a 5+ one) and I still think he will bring a lot more benefit with the terminators than the tactical squad. With the TAC squad Null zone wont be used hugely, sure the plasma shots but in general the boltguns wont benefit from it. At least with the terminators, all the hammers will benefit immensely.

Good pointers Taff...

I have done some re-thiking, so maybe a list like this:

HQ
1 Libby, plasma pistol, Null zone, Gate of Infinity: 115
1 Chaplain, terminator armour: 130

TROOP
10 TAC: Plasmagun, plasma pistol, Missile L: 195

10 TAC: meltagun, multi-melta, combi melta: 185

5 Scouts:Snipers, camo cloak:90

5 Scouts, heavy bolter:85

1 Razorback: TL Lascanon, dozerblade: 80


ELITE:
5 Terminators: th/ss :200
1 transport: Land Raider Redeemer, multi melta, 250

HEAVY:
1 Predator: Las sponson:120

1 Predator: Las sponson,:120

1 Thunderfire Canon:100

1 Aegis Defence Line, quad gun: 100


thats 1770 so have 80 points to use...
maybe 2 more terminators? or i could drop the Libby + Sarge pistols and gain another 30 points. What do you Guys say?

Cassius is cheaper than a Terminator Chaplain and better than him in almost every way. Consider him over that Termmie.

You have WAY to many troops for this point level. Whilst the Razor back has the worst weapon option. Las plas or Assault cannon are vastly superior options. Bolter Scouts are even worse that Tac marines you should never take them.

Solo Landraiders are still a bad idea.

Since its my own chapter I wont use Cassius, but good call..!

I also know that the Razorbacks weapon isnt as good as the las/plas, but I already built the TL las version :(

So you sai leave the Scouts w. bolters, thats another 85 point. So I still have 165 pts or 195 pts if I drop the 2 x plas pistols.

I think I´ll leave the rest of the list as it is, cause we start on NeXT monday, and im still not half way finished! So I have a lot of hours glueing and painting in front of me But could still need advise on the rest of the free points

Then drop a Tac squad and one of the HQs and you can afford a 2nd Landraider full of Terminators.

I wont drop a TAC, need the troops to get objectives, and another Land Raider isnt an option either. Im thinking assault marines?

Don't think assault marines. They are not a good option in the SM codex.

A dreadnought then?!

A dread is good if supported. Fire support would fit this list. You afford 2 rifle men dreads.

Don't be afraid to file the name off of special characters and make them your own. Cassius is a machine, and all you need is a chaplain on foot with a c-flamer to field him. For the points you pay you get a lot of flaming/killy/choppy death. An honestly, with his gear and stats he can fit seamlessly into most armies fluff.

I prefer to keep my tac squads together in a rhino. It is far too easy to kill 5 marines, takes more work to blow 10 off of an objective. If you are going to combat squad in a razor, invest in a better heavy for the guys sitting back.

You don't have any fast attack choices. The TAC Ultramarine in me says you need something from every FOC slot.

Stromtalons are good if you want to hit the skies.

MM attack bikes are good for some fast melta.

Typhoon/HB speeders have the range and speed to project fire anywhere on the table. You have enough armored threats that they should be low of the target priority queue.

As much as they get a bad rap, a 5 man assault marine squad with a flamer and power sword makes a good backfield harassment unit. Just hop around and find things weaker then you and take their lunch money. Leave the fair fights to the terminators.